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#3
12-01-2005, 09:41 AM
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Re: when the flop is paired
I often would bet the flop even if it didn't hit me, recognizing that there's a good chance it helped no one.
But for the same reason -- i.e., people often fold - I'm just toying with the idea of trying a c/r on the flop instead. They'll fold immediately if they have nothing, but at least I'd get one more sb out of it. 
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#5
12-01-2005, 10:00 AM
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Re: when the flop is paired
[ QUOTE ]
Okay so when the board pairs and you lead off, I know you don't have anything so I'm raising. [/ QUOTE ] In fact, that is a decent play by villain, especially if he sees me doing something repeatedly. But since most low-limit people aren't going to do that - particularly considering he limped in the first place - I don't see that as a big factor in my original question.
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#6
12-01-2005, 10:36 AM
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Re: when the flop is paired
with Jx on J44 flop i'm more inclined to like a 20% c/r, 80% lead line.
I would prefer a straight 100% donk with say 98 on a 944 flop as there are more overcards and a c/r won't fold anyone out, if they bet at all.
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#8
12-01-2005, 11:10 AM
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Re: when the flop is paired
[ QUOTE ]
Against a couple people whom you think have nothing, a check-raise really sucks when the free card they take gives them something that beats you. [/ QUOTE ] True. I might be projecting my own habits here a bit, because when I see this kind of board, I'm ultra-tempted to take a shot at it, from any position. Thus, I tend to assume that others have the same attitude, but perhaps that's unjustified here.
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#9
12-01-2005, 11:39 AM
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Re: when the flop is paired
My standard line is to almost always bet a flop like that.
My reasoning being that if you check/call then you have no information as to wether or not you have the best hand or not. If you bet and get raised or called - then you can start to gather information. Plus, the irony of check/raising someone that has the hand you represent is too much. Not to mention, if you check-raised me in the spot I would assume you have the Jack w/no kicker in the big blind. (Why c/r the strong hand w/no draws to push out?) Here's my classic thinking that I re-evaluate every time I'm in this spot: I bet. Tricky player: Calls = I'm beat Raises = I have best hand or am outkicked Predictable player: Calls = Beat by kicker, two overs, mid-pair Raises = Beat, but might be able to bluff out of pot reraising I'll bet it less often the higher the unpaired card is. Its what Slansky talks about...slowplaying a hand that might not be the best hand - but is likely to be the best hand at the end IF it is now. Meaning, if it were K 44 I would check through....let someone else catch their J on the river and then get money from them. Plus if you always bet the top pair in this spot - then you can also always safely bet the trips here. It raises your deception value for later.
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#10
12-01-2005, 12:03 PM
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Re: when the flop is paired
My standard is to bet these kinds of hands, people likes to call so i let them do it, especially on paired boards.
This also should make it easier to pick up pots with bluffs, but as you say, these guys don't pay attention. Anyway, i've been trying to c/r some lately so i'm interested if there is some good discussion about this. -Per
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