When the better tries to force the caller's decision.

beekeeper · #1 08-31-2005, 10:52 AM

A post from the home poker forum made me wonder:

What does it mean (with regard to the strength of his hand) when a player makes a substantial bet, like putting an opponent all-in, and then is impatient for the potential caller to act/make up his mind?

I'm guessing it means he has a strong hand.

(I'm not saying the poster from the other forum acted impatiently.)

xniNja · #2 08-31-2005, 11:28 AM

It depends if the impatience is acting, or you perceive that he is actually impatient about it.

If it's acting, it's most likely a strong hand. If they are actually impatient, they want to get the hand over with as quickly as possible, and it's most likely a bluff.

Xhad · #3 08-31-2005, 12:01 PM

This seems exactly backwards to me.

When you know you're hand is good, you're getting the pot either way, so you're more likely to be annoyed that your opponent is taking a long time. How many times in a low-limit live game have you seen someone say, "Here, I'll make it easy for you," and then table the nuts just to end the hand and get on to the next one?

On the other hand, bluffers are paranoid that anything they do will result in a call. Especially rushing their opponents since people frequently think a long time before talking themselves into folding. You just want them to fold, you don't care how long they take to do it. So genuine impatience would seem more likely to be the result of a monster.

diebitter · #4 08-31-2005, 12:10 PM

Well it ain't a bluff in most cases.

He's on a monster or he's not sure he's won, but has a reasonable hand.

xniNja · #5 08-31-2005, 12:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
When you know your hand is good, you're getting the pot either way, so you're less likely to be annoyed that your opponent is taking a long time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nothing is certain, but assuming we are talking about weak players (since a strong player wouldn't impatiently try to get his opponent to act)... it is more likely if he is actually impatient that he is on a bluff or has a weak hand.

When weak players have strong hands, they tend to take their time about it because they think it looks pretty, they know they have a good hand, they don't really care whether or not the guy calls, and want to appreciate and feel the glory of their "good luck."

On the same line of thinking, when they don't have a hand and are trying to buy the pot... they want it over with quickly because it's ugly, they actually aren't yet sure they are going to win (and want to know immediately) and possibly because they want to get to the next opportunity where they actually have a hand.

sekrah · #6 08-31-2005, 01:17 PM

ninja has it right.

Somebody with a strong hand does not get impatient.. Atleast based on my experience from what I've seen over the years.

GoCubsGo · #7 08-31-2005, 04:27 PM

Also, a player with a good hand doesn't want to discourage a call. They want to sit there and not say a word. They usually won't tell you to hurry up because they don't want to scare you out of a call.

Xhad · #8 08-31-2005, 11:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Nothing is certain, but assuming we are talking about weak players (since a strong player wouldn't impatiently try to get his opponent to act)... it is more likely if he is actually impatient that he is on a bluff or has a weak hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

It would seem to me strong players are more likely to care about getting that last bet (because they think in long-run terms), than a "gambler" who's often just happy that he won a pot.

[ QUOTE ]
On the same line of thinking, when they don't have a hand and are trying to buy the pot... they want it over with quickly because it's ugly, they actually aren't yet sure they are going to win (and want to know immediately)

[/ QUOTE ]

When most people bluff they tend to clam up and hope they win the pot. They want the opponent to act quickly, but not so badly that they risk doing something that gives away their bluff.

xniNja · #9 08-31-2005, 11:44 PM

I'm not saying you're necessarily wrong... but I think most people would disagree with this.

[ QUOTE ]
It would seem to me strong players are more likely to care about getting that last bet (because they think in long-run terms), than a "gambler" who's often just happy that he won a pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

People who think in long-run terms are less likely to care about a single bet than short-term opponents. I think your analysis is good, but you are reaching the wrong conclusions.

Edit: note that there is a significant difference between a single bet, and making the correct play overall. A long-runner would not care about the bet, but maximizing profit overall- meaning the best chance of getting his opponent to fold or call (whichever he preferred) and almost all strong players would agree this isn't done by trying to force your opponent to act quickly.