I'm lost

brazilio · #1 11-01-2005, 06:29 AM

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG raises, Hero 3-bets, Button calls, 2 folds, UTG caps, Hero calls, Button calls.

Flop: (13.33 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, Button calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (8.16 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG checks

My standard dirtbag line against douches when I want to see showdown very cheaply is to bet flop, check through turn and call river. The problem is UTG is TPP according to my extremely limited stats and this isn't HU. Button is a loose passive idiot that folds 4% of flop bets. the TPP won't fold QQ.

TStoneMBD · #2 11-01-2005, 06:33 AM

bet the turn and bet the river. fold to a turn raise, call a river raise since youve checked the turn.

stigmata · #3 11-01-2005, 06:57 AM

EIT: Just noticed that you noted "extremely limited stats". This makes what I said below somewhat arguable.

What does a tight passive cap preflop with and then check-call with on a KTx flop? This severely limits his holdings to just a few hands.

Likely hands: KK (trapping), QQ
Maybe hands: AQs, AQo (probably wouldn't of capped with these)
Some other hands are possible, but pretty unlikely (AA, TT, JJ etc.) because of the way he played the hand.

I think bet turn and check river might be a reasonable line. I just don't think we have much value against a passive preflop capper here, the way he played this just stinks of QQ.

#4 11-01-2005, 07:04 AM

Bet/fold the turn. Check behind or call a donk on the river.
Checking the turn isn't too good. I wouldn't be that eager to give up on the hand yet. Even if the main villain is TPP, you're probably looking at a river bet when you check the turn if he has the likely QQ, but he WON'T raise your turn bet with it. This way you can get to the showdown for the same price if you're losing, but value bet when you're winning.

(I realize I'm generalizing and leaving out other possibilities, but my statements apply to a good majority of hands in this situation)

w_alloy · #5 11-01-2005, 09:30 AM

He bets the flop or raises the turn with every hand thats beating you. A lpp is never raising the turn with a worse hand. If you check the turn and call the river, you lose the same amount as when you bet/fold the turn. If you are ahead, you gain the most from bet/bet. This makes your best line fairly obvious.

The only way this line is not best is if he will wait till the river to raise you as often as you are ahead here. Lets say you are ahead 40%, this means he has to wait to the river to raise (or not raise at all) 40% of the time for it not to matter what you do. This of course ignores the fact that he might bluff raise you, so you need slightly higher percent on the first number, but I think the chances of a bluff raise are small here.