Tough 3/6 hand or easy money?

hellite · #1 06-08-2005, 08:07 PM

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
2 folds, UTG+2 raises, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, 4 folds, Hero calls.

UTG+2 and MP1 are straight maniacs - very loose/aggressive; They have both been raising and reraising each other with weak hands. MP3 is very tight and aggressive.

Flop: (8.33 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

I was expecting to get raised here but...

Turn: (6.16 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 raises, Hero 3-bets, MP2 calls.

This was a little confusing; MP2 simply called on the flop after two maniacs called in front of him; then he pops on the turn? What gives? I put him on a small pair or overs (he possibly picked up a flush draw on the turn)and sent one back his way. Given his numbers, I would have expected him to either 3-bet preflop or raise the flop with any top rank hand. Either way, I figured the only way I could win this pot (if no A or 6 hits the board) is to 3 bet.
Though I currently have no hand, I do have 6 clean outs to the nuts. My plan for the river is to bet any card and fold to a raise. Any thoughts?

toss · #2 06-08-2005, 08:11 PM

Wait a minute you're 3-betting the turn with 5-high?

Emoney · #3 06-08-2005, 08:12 PM

there's little reason to bet this on the turn into 4 players.

damaniac · #4 06-08-2005, 08:12 PM

I'd be surprised if he raised the turn and folded to a 3-bet. Likewise, if he has any legitimate hand, I don't see him folding for one more on the end (the pot is going to be 13BB's).

Also, not 100% sure why you bet the flop "expecting to get raised"...you have equity 4-ways, but a raise from one of the maniacs is only likely to push others out, which isn't great since I don't see you winning this hand very often without a straight.

Edit: Oh yeah betting the turn kind of sucks too, I was so enraptured by the 3-bet that I forgot the initial one. I don't know what kind of maniacs you are used to dealing with, but mine don't get pushed out of pots for one bet. And if Mr. Very Tight is calling the flop here, you gotta expect he has something decent, right?

thirddan · #5 06-08-2005, 08:14 PM

this is spewing in my opinion...

you say that MP2 is a TAG, he most likely has you drawing only to your straight outs, im not sure if you think your pair outs are good here, but i highly doubt they are...MP's play looks like AT/22/33 that waited for the turn to get a double big bet...your turn 3bet is quite bad in my opinion, you will almost never win the pot on the turn, and very rarely is someone folding for one bet on the river when they put in 3 on the turn...

for the river i would suggest a c/r if you complete your draw and a check/fold otherwise, don't put anymore money in with only 5 high...

Emoney · #6 06-08-2005, 08:15 PM

not only do you not have all your clean outs for your straight because of the flush, the board paired on 4th. making the nut straight not the nuts. that's unlikely to happen with a 6, but could with an ace.

shark6 · #7 06-08-2005, 08:17 PM

I'd go for the value checkraise on the flop. You froze the LAGs when you led into them.

jba · #8 06-08-2005, 08:20 PM

1- you do not have six clean outs to the nuts, you could possibly be drawing dead already. If he has A2 (possible given the action) you're drawing to three outs.

2- that turn is bad for you and you shouldn't bet it. you barely have odds to check/call here. 3betting is just plain spewage.

3- if an A or 6 doesn't come, you're probably not going to win this pot no matter what you do. you're investing so much in the 3-bet that you need him to fold maybe 25% of the time and that just wont happen.

if you want to put the hammer down on some LAGs i'm not sure 5 high is the right spot

Bodhi · #9 06-08-2005, 08:20 PM

Besides pocket pairs, what range of hands do you all put MP2 on where he will just call preflop and not reraise?

fluff · #10 06-08-2005, 08:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Though I currently have no hand, I do have 6 clean outs to the nuts.

[/ QUOTE ]

Um...no. Your outs might not be to the nuts. Turn lead and 3 bet is absolutely horrid. What is the purpose of betting here? What is the purpose of 3 betting.

I would've check-raised the flop (here you do it for value, raiser is directly to your left), check-called turn, and fold river unimproved.