Was I outplayed here?

RobMay · #1 07-01-2005, 03:49 PM

Just started playing $100NL at Party ... and this guy pulls this stunt with ... well, see if you can guess.

My question really is: should I have raised from the SB in the first place? And how did I play it from then on?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, NL$100 (9 handed) converter

BB ($88.8)
UTG ($64)
UTG+1 ($61.7)
MP1 ($100)
MP2 ($272.6)
MP3 ($97)
CO ($73.2)
Button ($97.35)
Hero ($97)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $0.5.
7 folds, Hero (poster) raises to $3, BB calls $2.5.

Flop: ($6) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $3, BB raises to $9, Hero calls $6.

Turn: ($24) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $20, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $44

amoeba · #2 07-01-2005, 03:56 PM

bet more on the flop,

once he raises, I go all in.

swolfe · #3 07-01-2005, 03:57 PM

72o?

pot the flop, he'll be less likely to bluff raise you if you make a full pot bet.

if you had potted it, and he had made a good raise, then a 3-bet all-in would have been the play to make. you'd have 3 A outs, 3 T outs, 9 club outs, and good fold equity against anything but a set.

TheWorstPlayer · #4 07-01-2005, 03:59 PM

You definitely can't go all-in for such an overbet on the flop, but I would re-raise to $30.

amoeba · #5 07-01-2005, 04:01 PM

I agree that once hero underbet flop, pushing such an overbet is weird but I think if hero bet more preflop say 4xbb or 5xbb,

bet near pot on flop, got raised,

then he could push as the pot size would be exponentially bigger.

RobMay · #6 07-01-2005, 04:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I agree that once hero underbet flop, pushing such an overbet is weird but I think if hero bet more preflop say 4xbb or 5xbb,

bet near pot on flop, got raised,

then he could push as the pot size would be exponentially bigger.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I usually bet about 2/3 of the pot as standard, no matter what I have. (Don't ask me why I bet $3 instead of $4 here - a small mistake that makes all the difference?) I'll have to improve my strategy based on the situation!

I either wanted him to fold there and then, or call and let me catch a club. He wasn't supposed to raise me! Since he called from the start with essentially nothing, it's possible he may have had it in mind to try and outplay me no matter what I did.

TheWorstPlayer · #7 07-01-2005, 04:28 PM

particularly in blind battles, you have to be willing to 3-bet fairly regularly, IMO. still don't go crazy, because people still aren't that aggro here, but if you have a hand which could be best and has many many outs to improve, i definitely think a 3-bet is good. it will also set the tone for future conflicts and he will raise you (or call you) less liberally.

amoeba · #8 07-01-2005, 04:34 PM

on the surface, 4 vs 3 or 5 vs 3 doesn't seem that much.

However, if we look at it indepth, each street triples potsize if you bet pot and other guy calls. since this usually doesn't happen, notice even if you bet 1/2 pot and other guy calls, potsize doubles.

we all know how interest at say a bank works. you have your principle and that is multiplied by your interest rate and experiences exponential growth.

Its the same idea here.

while betting 4 doesn't seem that different from 3, you've increased your initial principle by 4/3 thus increasing all future bets.

Also a raise to 3 seems like a steal attempt and a raise to 4 seems a bit more legitimate especially if I've been raising limpers with 4xBB.

guys at SSNL can't tell that you've lowered your raise amount because its folded to the blinds.

having played the flop like you did, turn check fold is fine.

amoeba · #9 07-01-2005, 04:00 PM

if you were both deeper,

just calling the flop raise is ok, but at buy in level stacks, I like a strong flop bet followed by a push if raised.

TheWorstPlayer · #10 07-01-2005, 04:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
if you were both deeper,

just calling the flop raise is ok, but at buy in level stacks, I like a strong flop bet followed by a push if raised.

[/ QUOTE ]
quoted for truth.