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#3
10-14-2005, 03:11 PM
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Re: way ahead, way behind
Let's say you raise w/ KK. Someone reraises (or just calls the big blind). Flop is AA6. You are either way ahead or way behind. Whoever is behind is not drawing very live.
When in this situation, your best strategy will be one that maximizes your win if way ahead but at the same time will minimize your loss if way behind. 
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#4
10-14-2005, 03:12 PM
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Re: way ahead, way behind
[ QUOTE ]
Let's say you raise w/ KK. Someone reraises (or just calls the big blind). Flop is AA6. You are either way ahead or way behind. Whoever is behind is not drawing very live. When in this situation, your best strategy will be one that maximizes your win if way ahead but at the same time will minimize your loss if way behind. [/ QUOTE ] Exactly. So if he leads into you on the flop you should just call down (bet if checked to), because you want him to keep betting his 2 outer but you don't want to put more money than necessary in whilst chasing a 2 outer.
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#5
10-14-2005, 03:20 PM
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Re: way ahead, way behind
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Let's say you raise w/ KK. Someone reraises (or just calls the big blind). Flop is AA6. You are either way ahead or way behind. Whoever is behind is not drawing very live. When in this situation, your best strategy will be one that maximizes your win if way ahead but at the same time will minimize your loss if way behind. [/ QUOTE ] Exactly. So if he leads into you on the flop you should just call down (bet if checked to), because you want him to keep betting his 2 outer but you don't want to put more money than necessary in whilst chasing a 2 outer. [/ QUOTE ] what if he reraises this flop bet? Call it down? Or, what if he just calls and leads out on the turn or CR the turn? Is checking behind on this flop just too weak? and if you do get CR on the turn, depending on your opponent, are you either folding or calling down? **so really, the concept is just to not get into a raising war if you're way behind or way ahead?** sorry, I know this is fairly elemental, I just want to be sure I understand the concept correctly.
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#6
10-14-2005, 03:22 PM
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Re: way ahead, way behind
[ QUOTE ]
would someone kindly explain this concept, and how it affects the betting of a semi-strong hand? [/ QUOTE ] Ok I'll try to give you an example. Lets say that a tricky aggressive player limps in utg and you raise with QQ and everyone folds and the player calls. Lets say the flop comes out A 8 4. He checks and you bet and he calls. The turn is a blank, and he checks again, you should consider checking behind also since you are either way ahead or way behind and only the king would be a bad river card for you. By playing your hand this way you avoid being checkraised on the turn and possibly folding the best hand or calling down drawing to two outs, and plus you may induce him to bluff the river or even call the river when he mightve folded the turn. Heres another example of a hand i just played yesterday, I raise with JcJs utg, 3 people call including a loose aggressive player on the button and both blinds fold. The flop comes out Qc3c3d. I bet, two players fold and the Loose aggressive player calls. The turn brings the 6c. I now check partially becuz i now have a club draw and partially becuz im in a way ahead way behind situation and the villain cannot have AK since he wouldve reraised preflop, so im not worried about an ace or a king hitting the river since at worst only one of those cards can beat me. So I check the turn, and the villain bets, and I call, the river is a total blank, I check, the villain bets and I call and he turns over A8 for a total bluff. By playing my hand in an awkward fashion I got the villain to bluff off 2BB, and i also avoided the uncomfortable situation of getting popped on the turn. In many WA/WB sitations the correct strategy is usually to check and call, but keep in mind that these situations usually only apply to heads up situations. And if you are against weak predictable opponents who would never raise you without the goods but will call you down with very weak hands than you should be betting to collect more money since you can safely fold to a checkraise. Against these type of opponents checking decent hands cuz you are in a WA/WB situation will just cost you money.
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#7
10-14-2005, 03:26 PM
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Re: way ahead, way behind
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Let's say you raise w/ KK. Someone reraises (or just calls the big blind). Flop is AA6. You are either way ahead or way behind. Whoever is behind is not drawing very live. When in this situation, your best strategy will be one that maximizes your win if way ahead but at the same time will minimize your loss if way behind. [/ QUOTE ] Exactly. So if he leads into you on the flop you should just call down (bet if checked to), because you want him to keep betting his 2 outer but you don't want to put more money than necessary in whilst chasing a 2 outer. [/ QUOTE ] what if he reraises this flop bet? Call it down? Or, what if he just calls and leads out on the turn or CR the turn? Is checking behind on this flop just too weak? and if you do get CR on the turn, depending on your opponent, are you either folding or calling down? **so really, the concept is just to not get into a raising war if you're way behind or way ahead?** sorry, I know this is fairly elemental, I just want to be sure I understand the concept correctly. [/ QUOTE ] If the opponent checkraises this flop you should just call down, if your opponent checks the flop and you check behind, and then he checks the turn and you bet and he checkraises, you must again call down since you may have induced him to checkraise with a hand you can beat. If your opponent leads into you on the flop and you call and then he checks the turn, this would be another good time to check behind as your opponent either has nothing or is trying to trap you, so checking the turn here may induce a bluff on the river or a bad call on the river, and by checking the turn you avoid his trap the times hes going for a checkraise with trips.
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#8
10-14-2005, 03:33 PM
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Re: way ahead, way behind
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Let's say you raise w/ KK. Someone reraises (or just calls the big blind). Flop is AA6. You are either way ahead or way behind. Whoever is behind is not drawing very live. When in this situation, your best strategy will be one that maximizes your win if way ahead but at the same time will minimize your loss if way behind. [/ QUOTE ] Exactly. So if he leads into you on the flop you should just call down (bet if checked to), because you want him to keep betting his 2 outer but you don't want to put more money than necessary in whilst chasing a 2 outer. [/ QUOTE ] what if he reraises this flop bet? Call it down? Or, what if he just calls and leads out on the turn or CR the turn? Is checking behind on this flop just too weak? and if you do get CR on the turn, depending on your opponent, are you either folding or calling down? **so really, the concept is just to not get into a raising war if you're way behind or way ahead?** sorry, I know this is fairly elemental, I just want to be sure I understand the concept correctly. [/ QUOTE ] If the opponent checkraises this flop you should just call down, if your opponent checks the flop and you check behind, and then he checks the turn and you bet and he checkraises, you must again call down since you may have induced him to checkraise with a hand you can beat. If your opponent leads into you on the flop and you call and then he checks the turn, this would be another good time to check behind as your opponent either has nothing or is trying to trap you, so checking the turn here may induce a bluff on the river or a bad call on the river, and by checking the turn you avoid his trap the times hes going for a checkraise with trips. [/ QUOTE ] Very nice explantation - thanks.
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#9
10-14-2005, 03:35 PM
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Re: way ahead, way behind
To complicate the strategy a little: let's say your opponent is a very aggressive player who likes to bluff and is very likely to try to use that A to push you off a hand (assuming the play of the hand up till now has led him to believe you're on a pocket pair).
Against such an opponent, you should bet knowing full well that he's likely to checkraise and you will call down. This of course is more risky than simply checking behind because he may accidentally happen to have an A. But if your opponent's tendency is to play too loose and aggressively, you have to take that risk sometimes to let him hang himself.
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#10
10-14-2005, 03:35 PM
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Re: way ahead, way behind
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] would someone kindly explain this concept, and how it affects the betting of a semi-strong hand? [/ QUOTE ] Ok I'll try to give you an example. Lets say that a tricky aggressive player limps in utg and you raise with QQ and everyone folds and the player calls. Lets say the flop comes out A 8 4. He checks and you bet and he calls. The turn is a blank, and he checks again, you should consider checking behind also since you are either way ahead or way behind and only the king would be a bad river card for you. By playing your hand this way you avoid being checkraised on the turn and possibly folding the best hand or calling down drawing to two outs, and plus you may induce him to bluff the river or even call the river when he mightve folded the turn. Heres another example of a hand i just played yesterday, I raise with JcJs utg, 3 people call including a loose aggressive player on the button and both blinds fold. The flop comes out Qc3c3d. I bet, two players fold and the Loose aggressive player calls. The turn brings the 6c. I now check partially becuz i now have a club draw and partially becuz im in a way ahead way behind situation and the villain cannot have AK since he wouldve reraised preflop, so im not worried about an ace or a king hitting the river since at worst only one of those cards can beat me. So I check the turn, and the villain bets, and I call, the river is a total blank, I check, the villain bets and I call and he turns over A8 for a total bluff. By playing my hand in an awkward fashion I got the villain to bluff off 2BB, and i also avoided the uncomfortable situation of getting popped on the turn. In many WA/WB sitations the correct strategy is usually to check and call, but keep in mind that these situations usually only apply to heads up situations. And if you are against weak predictable opponents who would never raise you without the goods but will call you down with very weak hands than you should be betting to collect more money since you can safely fold to a checkraise. Against these type of opponents checking decent hands cuz you are in a WA/WB situation will just cost you money. [/ QUOTE ] Again, thanks - makes total sense.
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