QJo EMP in a Tightish Game

[beset7]

AVG vpip at the table over 90 hands or so is about 20. SB is the only loose player. 40/10/3 type of dude. I started raising offsuit broadway from EMP after I saw it folded around a few times. Getting ready to switch tables when:

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: (7 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB 3-bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (10.50 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 12.50 BB

Spewage? Limp preflop even at tight tables? Fold to the turn 3-bet? Two overs and a gutshot makes the flop call ok if all my outs are clean. I can't give an exact range on what the SB 3-bets with out of the small blind but given I was playing aggressively it's probably something like TT+,A9s+,KTs+,QTs+,JTs,A9o+. Too wide? I think even against that range I'm toast.

[tiltaholic]

[ QUOTE ]
AVG vpip at the table over 90 hands or so is about 20. SB is the only loose player. 40/10/3 type of dude. I started raising offsuit broadway from EMP after I saw it folded around a few times. Getting ready to switch tables when:

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: (7 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB 3-bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (10.50 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 12.50 BB

Spewage? Limp preflop even at tight tables? Fold to the turn 3-bet? Two overs and a gutshot makes the flop call ok if all my outs are clean. I can't give an exact range on what the SB 3-bets with out of the small blind but given I was playing aggressively it's probably something like TT+,A9s+,KTs+,QTs+,JTs,A9o+. Too wide? I think even against that range I'm toast.

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i think your range is way too wide - most players that are too loose and are generally bad don't pay attention to what you are doing. i'm pretty sure his 3-bet is not a reflection of your past aggressive play. i think you're looking at AJs+, AQo+, and 99+ many times here (from the sb).

i'd usually just call down from the turn on to see.

(i like the pf raise at the position and table you describe)

I raise the flop. You have position, a relatively strong hand, and you could use a cheap card on the turn. If three-bet on the flop I'd call and fold unimproved on the turn. Is raising this flop terrible?

As you played it, I think this isn't too bad. It sucks getting three-bet as it just screams overpair, but you still have to call with your gutshot plus trips/two pair draw. I also make the crying call on the river.

[beset7]

Is raising and then folding to a 3-bet a big no-no preflop?

I would have to say it is. Even at low limits playing against people w/ far lower skill level than you, I think they are going to notice something as big as a raise/fold preflop. You'll be a target for the rest of the session.

[tiltaholic]

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Is raising and then folding to a 3-bet a big no-no preflop?

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yes. preflop in limit holdem you shouldn't raise and fold for one more bet. folding for 2 more bets can be perfectly acceptable.

[moa]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is raising and then folding to a 3-bet a big no-no preflop?

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yes. preflop in limit holdem you shouldn't raise and fold for one more bet unless you're johny chan playing some high stakes poker with mike mcclain. . folding for 2 more bets can be perfectly acceptable.

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fyp

[bozlax]

[ QUOTE ]
Is raising and then folding to a 3-bet a big no-no preflop?

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Oh, yeah. It's an even huger mistake than limp/folding when it's one back to you, and that's a pretty huge mistake. Especially in a situation like this where you've got a guy who may be over-zealously defending.

(By the way, did anyone else almost die laughing at Norm Chad on the Thanksgiving day WSP telecasts continuously criticising "amateurs" for "thinking they have to 'defend' their blind"? He's funny.)

[sean c]

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Is raising and then folding to a 3-bet a big no-no preflop?

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Yes it is a no no. I am not a fan of your pre flop raise i probably muck it from a middle position and raise it from the hi jack, co or button. The turn raise sucks because you can't fold to a 3-bet with as many as 9 possible outs vs an overpair.

[beset7]

awesome. this is good because when I call the flop with overs and I get there on the turn I automatically raise.