Not the beat, but the chatter....

[CrisBrown]

Hi All,

I did something yesterday that I hadn't done in quite awhile. I went on tilt. Uggh. Oh well. It happened.

Anyway, here's how:

I'm in a $2/4 game on Stars and holding my own, although nothing really noteworthy yet. I'm up about $80, when I get 87o in MP. I decide to change gears a bit -- I'd had a couple of big pairs earlier and hadn't played anything else since -- so I limp. LP limps. BB, with about $240, makes it $12. I figure he's got a big pair, which I like because if I hit my hand well, I can probably get his entire stack, and if I miss it I can get away cheaply. Besides, I don't limp with a hand if I'm won't be willing to call a standard open-raise. LP folds.

The flop is 2-8-7 ... perfect for me. He checks, and I bet the pot (~$32). He min-raises me, and now I'm sure he's on a high pair. I min-raise back, and sure enough, all of his chips end up in the middle.

Alas, the turn-river is 3-3, and he counterfeits two pair to take the pot with QQ. Oh well. I'd play that hand the same way again.

He said, "Ouch. Sorry."

I said, "No problem. I wanted that action, just not that outcome."

And someone else, who wasn't in the pot, chimes in: "Well, you got what you deserved, calling a raise with 87o."

I should have ignored the chirper. Instead, we proceeded to have an ongoing dialogue through the next two or three hands about why I was (or wasn't) an idiot to call a pre-flop raise with 87o. And that put me on tilt....

Anyway, it turned out to be an expensive day, but not too horrible. Certainly nothing I can't bounce back from. But I violated my own rule -- ignore poker advice given at the table -- and it cost me, and I was pretty upset with myself afterwards.

Cris

P.S. I left about a half-hour later after I made a big raise behind three limpers with KK, was called by UTG, pushed at a 5-6-7 flop with two spades, and he called me with 74s and hit an 8 for his straight. And what did the chirper say to that? "Good call. It was suited."

[Ben]

Hi Cris.

Rough break, but at least you knew recognize what happened. I've found posting my mistakes on 2+2 tends to ensure that I don't make them again.

The chirper sounds obnoxious, I'd likely block his chat and never have to deal with him again.

-Ben

P.S. The chirper a 60-37 favorite to win given that flop. Him calling your raise should earn him a nice little 'fish' note though.

[tewall]

[ QUOTE ]
And someone else, who wasn't in the pot, chimes in: "Well, you got what you deserved, calling a raise with 87o."

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, what were you thinking?! Now if it were suited ...

[CrisBrown]

Hi tewall,

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, what were you thinking?! Now if it were suited ...

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL, yes. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Obviously, my brilliant plan was to hit two pair or better on the flop, get all of his money in with an overpair, and get outdrawn. And it worked, too! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Cris

[CrisBrown]

Hi Ben,

[ QUOTE ]
P.S. The chirper a 60-37 favorite to win given that flop. Him calling your raise should earn him a nice little 'fish' note though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, in the second hand my KK was a dog at the flop, given that he had a pair plus the straight and flush draws. It was clearly a mistake for me to continue it, and I knew it immediately. The chirper wasn't in that pot either, but his comment that UTG's pre-flop call was good because his 74 was suited ... *shrugs* ... at that point I figured I'd rather go read last month's grocery lists than keep playing.

Cris

[scrub]

The guy was obnoxious, but it's a pretty marginal limp.

scrub

[fourgapper]

Are you sure you weren't tilting just a wee bit limping with 87o in MP? According to Feeney, playing something questionable is the first sign of (unconscious) tilt.

4gapper

(p.s., why not raise-open your 87o?)

[Paul2432]

I agree that it is highly infuriating to be told by someone that does know what they are talking about how you have played a hand wrong.

I think in this instance you have to realize something good has actually happened. I normally say nothing but something like, "I'm just playing for fun" is OK too. Letting your opponents believe that you are bad player can only work in your favor.

One other quick point. If your opponent had to show first I recommend mucking without showing.

Paul

[scrub]

[ QUOTE ]
One other quick point. If your opponent had to show first I recommend mucking without showing.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a very important point. There's no utility to showing the hand, and if you did it instead of being found out through a hand history, it was a mistake. Never show your cards if you don't have to.

I don't read a lot of your posts Cris, so I could be way off base here, but I think this sort interaction might be a bigger problem for you than you imagine.

Back when you used to post mostly on the sitngo forum, I remember noticing that you seemed extremely concerned about what other posters and players thought of your game. I get the same impression from many of your posts on PLNL.

I guess it all depends on whether you derive more utility from being thought of as a "good player" by all the other players at the table, or from having the highest win rate possible. You're entitled to value the two however you want, but they often conflict.

scrub

[The WET BEAVER]

Cris Brown, you made 2 mistakes.

You let him put you on tilt when you could have turned off his chat.

You limped with 87o. That's a sign of tilt. Players limp with trash and then they rationalize by saying "I need to mix it up". You're doing it with the wrong hand and when you mix it up you want to be the aggressor, not the passive coldcaller.

You need to restudy the gap concept. You were getting poor odds, and if you flopped a straight draw or one pair, he would make you pay through the nose for another card. Coldcalling is the #1 way players dribble away chips.