The heat is on. Fox News special review

[Wes ManTooth]

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4) How ethanol is a NET ENERGY LOSER


Care to elaborate further?

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http://tinyurl.com/aque9


and from journals

http://tinyurl.com/duygt


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Originally ethanol production may have been a net loser, older plants that used oil and coal may have been. Newer ethanol plants are much more energy efficient, I think that it is a misconception that all ethanol is produced at a net energy lose. If various forms of ethanol production increases because of demand, overall production will continue to become more effective.

Current research prepared by Argonne National Laboratory (a U.S. Department of Energy Laboratory), indicates a 38% gain in the overall energy input/output equation for the corn-to-ethanol process. That is, if 100 BTUs of energy is used to plant corn, harvest the crop, transport it, etc., 138 BTUs of energy is available in the fuel ethanol. Corn yields and processing technologies have improved significantly over the past 20 years and they continue to do so, making ethanol production less and less energy intensive.


granted this link is to an ethanol site
many links against ethanol production are related to oil industry such as this one


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You lazy bum. Maybe you should work for Fox News. :-P Oh well, atleast you are asking questions.

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no need for name calling [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[wacki]

Ok, so I was slightly innacurate with the ethanol. It is possible for it to be +EV in some situations in fact, in many situations. I've even posted links about that in the past where conola is 0.8 input/output ratio as shown in this link:
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releas...-hgm092705.php

But many are -EV or simply not scalable. Even in situations where it is +EV, the difference isn't anything to get excited about in cost or ROI energy value. I have said in the past that biodiesel will be helpful especially with algae but corn simply isn't the answer.

That original post was long and I spend too much time here as is and was pissed off when I made this post..... sorry about the error. I'm trying to balance time and failing misersably.

Guh... short on time.... Gots to go.

[Wes ManTooth]

its cool, overall your OP was well written, thanks for the insight and info.

[Colonel Kataffy]

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6) Why hydrogen in itself isn’t going to help global warming because we still need to use fossil fuels to create it.

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nuclear power [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[Rick Nebiolo]

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When talking about the fight for global warming they thought it was important enough to spend over 20 minutes (guestimating) interviewing the director of "the day after tomorrow" Linky and how he replaces the lightbulbs in his house with energy efficient bulbs.

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Wacki, I love these posts.

Anyway, here's a related mini-eco story:

About six months ago a crew of six workmen show up to make my apartment more "energy efficient".

They replace the foyer overhead light with energy efficient lights. I used this maybe twenty times per month for ten seconds at a time. Since they put it in I use this maybe twenty times per month for ten seconds at a time.

They replace the overhead fan lights in the dining room. I used to use this light an hour or so a month, now I never use it (the replacement lights don't go to full brightness for several minutes - I used to use the lights when reading fine print).

They replace the vanity lights in the bedroom vanity area. My girlfriend, who used these about three times a week for an hour, made me change them to brand new lights because the light they cast was so ugly.

They replace an overhead hall light that I never used unless I turned it on by accident. I still never use it.

They put in a new programmable thermostat. I live in California and never turn on the primary heat (I do use a space heater in the one room I hang in).

Of course the owner probably gets a tax credit. With the savings maybe he can buy a new SUV. But the workers who put in the bulbs probably arrived in an old run down Chevy [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

~ Rick

[natedogg]

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3) A call from scientists for a 5 cent gas tax to fund an Apollo energy program


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You know I had to chime in. But I just have two simple questions, rather than my standard input.

What do you envision to be the details of an "Apollo energy program"?

Why do you think it's important to increase revenues via a gas tax rather than to simply re-allocate the currently existing revenues?

natedogg