Folding the second nuts.

[UnsungHero]

I fail to hear warning bells. A lot. When MP1 bets out I suspected the other T, but when CO called I actually put him on the T and MP1 possibly on QQ. MP1 had been tight, and showing down top set, but I have a very difficult time laying down hands. This is my biggest flaw. While in the hand I thought raising to $10 on the turn would still allow me to get away if he came over the top, but 2nd nuts was too pretty for me to escape. That call button is too easy to click online...

Comments appreciated.

Ultimate Bet Pot-Limit Omaha High, $.25 BB (9 handed) converter

UTG+1 ($11.25)
MP1 ($38.75)
MP2 ($12.60)
MP3 ($19.05)
CO ($30.05)
Button ($9)
SB ($5.25)
Hero ($44.30)
UTG ($23.85)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls $0.25, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP1 calls $0.25, MP2 calls $0.25, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, CO calls $0.25, Button calls $0.25, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: ($1.75) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(7 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets $1.5</font>, MP2 folds, CO calls $1.50, Button folds, SB folds, Hero calls $1.50, UTG folds.

Turn: ($6.25) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets $3</font>, CO calls $3, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $18.25</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises to $37</font>, CO folds, Hero calls.

River: ($48.75) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>

Final Pot: $48.75

[Wheatsauce]

As long as the people involved in the pot with you are not complete morons, then you have an easy fold on the flop. With a bet and a call, one has the case 10, and the other has QQ almost every single time. Another advantage of position. This situation is not uncommon in omaha, and I believe it is discussed in one of Ciaffone's books (IIRC, he talks of folding 97 on a 779 board to a bet and a call).

Lesson learned...albeit expensively.

[BluffTHIS!]

Since *usually* you are either beat or splitting at best, perhaps with one card to a better straight if you are in fact splitting, then you should fold this. This doesn't mean it isn't worth a raise on the flop to find out when you have position, but you don't want to think it is a slowplaying hand and wait until the turn and the pot gets bigger and it is more expensive to get information.

All this is all the more the case since this is an unraised pot and you don't have squat for equity to protect, or reason to think you are up against an overly aggressive prelfop raiser who only has a T and nothing else yet.

[beset7]

Already been said, but I wouldn't slowplay this if that's what you were doing. In NLHE or LHE you would wait for the turn perhaps but in PLO the underfull is a pain in the arse. Raise the flop and fold to a raise if the guy isn't a total maniac.

[bholdr]

maybe pot it instead of calling the flop? see if they'll let you know if you're beat. i'd probably be willing to go all the way with it, but then again, i'm still learning.

intresting hand: only in omaha could one reasonably fear being crushed here...

[BluffTHIS!]

[ QUOTE ]
maybe pot it instead of calling the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

That is what I was saying (bet if first to act or raise, even min raise to get information). And if you get smoothcalled behind you, then you should feel a little ill and be looking to protect your stack. These kind of hands out of position can be stack dumpers.

[Unabridged]

[ QUOTE ]
As long as the people involved in the pot with you are not complete morons, then you have an easy fold on the flop. With a bet and a call, one has the case 10, and the other has QQ almost every single time. Another advantage of position. This situation is not uncommon in omaha, and I believe it is discussed in one of Ciaffone's books (IIRC, he talks of folding 97 on a 779 board to a bet and a call).

Lesson learned...albeit expensively.

[/ QUOTE ]

maybe in bigger games, but in $25 there are people calling that flop with Axh or KJ also. i think the raise on the turn is fine, there's no reason to be scared yet.
now when MP1 comes over the top on the turn thats when i get scared and probably fold unless MP1 is a donk (and i've seen plenty make this play with T4)

[Lafortezza]

At the $25 game I make this river call every single time. Unless you *know* that Villain is not a typical low limit monkey you will see T4 of AhXh+T plenty of times.