$11 PP - Where's the line between push-botting and push-poossy?

To win the blinds.

lol, one would have to be a true badass to push anything except for 32o and mucking that in this spot.

[playtitleist]

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The other day I was afraid to push on the bubble. Now I may be over doing it.

My image is likely that of an agressive big stack. The hand immediately before this I called the BB, then went all in on a rag flop with bottom pair and scott50111 called with a gut shot, making two pair. Much of the last orbit dough_ray_me and I had been swapping all-ins and the other two had been left to try and stay alive.

SB and BB really need to have a hand to call, even with me being a bully. So is this a push or do I let one go to relax the image a bit?

Seat 4: dough_ray_me (2055)
Seat 8: playtitleist (2990)
Seat 9: scott50111 (1280)
Seat 10: Spooky101 (1675)
scott50111 posts small blind (150)
Spooky101 posts big blind (300)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to playtitleist [ 7c, 4s ]
dough_ray_me folds.
fbomsabound ???

edited out the funk

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What, exactly, would be the point of pushing this hand given your stack?

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To answer a question with a question: When do you have enough chips?

[GtrHtr]

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The other day I was afraid to push on the bubble. Now I may be over doing it.

My image is likely that of an agressive big stack. The hand immediately before this I called the BB, then went all in on a rag flop with bottom pair and scott50111 called with a gut shot, making two pair. Much of the last orbit dough_ray_me and I had been swapping all-ins and the other two had been left to try and stay alive.

SB and BB really need to have a hand to call, even with me being a bully. So is this a push or do I let one go to relax the image a bit?

Seat 4: dough_ray_me (2055)
Seat 8: playtitleist (2990)
Seat 9: scott50111 (1280)
Seat 10: Spooky101 (1675)
scott50111 posts small blind (150)
Spooky101 posts big blind (300)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to playtitleist [ 7c, 4s ]
dough_ray_me folds.
fbomsabound ???

edited out the funk

[/ QUOTE ]

What, exactly, would be the point of pushing this hand given your stack?

[/ QUOTE ]

To answer a question with a question: When do you have enough chips?

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I understand that, and I understand picking up the blinds here. I asked my question from a perspective of risk v reward which seems fairly slim here.

This strikes me as a tough problem. (Assuming 150/300 blinds.) If SB and BB call 8%, you want to push any two; if they call 10%, you want to push 75%; if they call 12%, you want to push 40%; if they call 14%, you want to push 23%. I doubt you can really narrow their range enough to answer this question definitively.

[playtitleist]

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The other day I was afraid to push on the bubble. Now I may be over doing it.

My image is likely that of an agressive big stack. The hand immediately before this I called the BB, then went all in on a rag flop with bottom pair and scott50111 called with a gut shot, making two pair. Much of the last orbit dough_ray_me and I had been swapping all-ins and the other two had been left to try and stay alive.

SB and BB really need to have a hand to call, even with me being a bully. So is this a push or do I let one go to relax the image a bit?

Seat 4: dough_ray_me (2055)
Seat 8: playtitleist (2990)
Seat 9: scott50111 (1280)
Seat 10: Spooky101 (1675)
scott50111 posts small blind (150)
Spooky101 posts big blind (300)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to playtitleist [ 7c, 4s ]
dough_ray_me folds.
fbomsabound ???

edited out the funk

[/ QUOTE ]

What, exactly, would be the point of pushing this hand given your stack?

[/ QUOTE ]

To answer a question with a question: When do you have enough chips?

[/ QUOTE ]

I understand that, and I understand picking up the blinds here. I asked my question from a perspective of risk v reward which seems fairly slim here.

[/ QUOTE ]
Well, I'm actually serious. And in my mind that is a pivotal piece to this. Everything tells me to push it. But at what point can I say, "I have enough chips, no need to risk 74o"?

[FlyWf]

You have enough chips when you have all of them. Say you triple up on the first hand. Next hand, you pick up, oh QQ in MP. Folded to you, do you muck it because 2400 chips is certainly enough?

It's always a balance of hand strength and situation. But in this specific case I'd fold it. SB is almost certainly pushing here and BB is heavily incented to call.

[ZeroPointMachine]

IMO something that is being overlooked is the fact that those chips in the SB/BB aren't going anywhere. The blinds only go up. You are very likely to have a much more positive pushing situation on the next orbit. If you push here and lose, you are not going to be in the push any 2 spot from the button on the next orbit. Quite a few good things can happen between now and then if you let them. I'm not saying that pushing is not a positive play, but it is not neccesarily optimal. If you and UTG had opposite stacks then pushing would be mandatory because you are much less likely to have the opportunity next orbit.

[eniven]

I'm pretty new to SNG's and the concept of "push-botting"...

Can someone please point me towards a good thread about the theory on push-botting?

Do people adopt push-botting styles primarily to deal with multi-tabling? Or would you still play a push-bot style while playing only one table?

Thanks for the help,
Eric

[GtrHtr]

[ QUOTE ]
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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The other day I was afraid to push on the bubble. Now I may be over doing it.

My image is likely that of an agressive big stack. The hand immediately before this I called the BB, then went all in on a rag flop with bottom pair and scott50111 called with a gut shot, making two pair. Much of the last orbit dough_ray_me and I had been swapping all-ins and the other two had been left to try and stay alive.

SB and BB really need to have a hand to call, even with me being a bully. So is this a push or do I let one go to relax the image a bit?

Seat 4: dough_ray_me (2055)
Seat 8: playtitleist (2990)
Seat 9: scott50111 (1280)
Seat 10: Spooky101 (1675)
scott50111 posts small blind (150)
Spooky101 posts big blind (300)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to playtitleist [ 7c, 4s ]
dough_ray_me folds.
fbomsabound ???

edited out the funk

[/ QUOTE ]

What, exactly, would be the point of pushing this hand given your stack?

[/ QUOTE ]

To answer a question with a question: When do you have enough chips?

[/ QUOTE ]

I understand that, and I understand picking up the blinds here. I asked my question from a perspective of risk v reward which seems fairly slim here.

[/ QUOTE ]
Well, I'm actually serious. And in my mind that is a pivotal piece to this. Everything tells me to push it. But at what point can I say, "I have enough chips, no need to risk 74o"?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this situation is a close one, however, I think that with these blinds and the fact that you are 10 chips below 10BBs make this more risk than reward. I would fold this hand.

One aspect of bubble play that isn't talked about very much on the forum is the mistakes others make on the bubble which we need to allow them to make. SNGPT may very well say this is a push, that 72o is a push here but its also 10 chips away from giving you the default popup that says you have over 10BBs, condsider other options. The most common mistake our opponents make is poor calling standards. I think its likely that you will get called here by a "poor" calling hand which will have you dominated. AT comes to mind or K9. Its much better to pushbot a hand that can become something, like connected cards or suited cards.