88 flop decision

bnorthro · #1 12-17-2005, 05:45 PM

The raiser is about 36/32/6 over 22 hands. BB in this hand is a psycho who really likes check/raising gutshots 69/37/1.7 over 150 hands. I haven't noticed much about the PFRers.

I think this is kind of a common situation. You've got a mid PP that's probably good enough to stay around, but maybe not raise and open yourself up to a 3 bet from 2 aggro players. The draw obviously makes this easier, but even without it, everyone still call this down? The way I see it, this guy is raising a ton of hands that don't have a K, but he's probably aggressive enough to 3-bet me with an A.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
2 folds, CO raises, 1 fold, Hero calls, BB calls.

 This is a debateable. A 3 bet has it's merits, and I've been mixing that in, but BB is just as likely to cap it behind me as he is call/fold. 

Flop: (6 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, CO bets, Hero calls, BB calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, CO bets, Hero calls, BB calls.

River: (7.50 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, BB folds, CO calls.

Final Pot: 9.50 BB

I guess a river C/R has some merit, but there's no gaurantee it's going to get bet and a K is going to call.

Sorry for making a bunch of hand posts today.

Thanks for the input.

toss · #2 12-17-2005, 05:50 PM

Its only 22 hands, but if you think CO is raising light here you should 3-bet preflop. Checkraise the flop and go from there. Your hand is good a lot unless CO only bets with top pair or stuff.

#3 12-17-2005, 05:57 PM

I think you gotta 3 bet this preflop. If it doesn't get capped, I would have no problem bet-calling this flop w 88. The draw definitely makes the turn c-c right.

bobhalford · #4 12-17-2005, 06:27 PM

Here I 3-bet pf to get the BB outta there. Just calling doesn't force BB into making a mistake. He's getting great odds and has position on you when you call. I don't like "mixing it up" with 88 in this situation, a hand that you would prefer to go heads up with against what could be a semi-steal/position raise. "slowplaying" your mid/high pair is not warranted in this situation IMO. If BB is a bit nuts, you prefer to raise to give him an opportunity to make a mistake. In fact I think you want to do this against any opponent, but even better with this BB. Also, if he does cap it, you can just bet out the flop and expect him to raise to drive out the CO and go heads up with BB, another favorable situation. If BB folds to the 3-bet, then that's fine too. We can see what CO does and then bet out on this flop, or even check-raise if you're feeling frisky.

They way you played it, I would check-raise the flop to represent a K in case CO doesn't have one. Then bet the turn and the river. But since you didn't, I would then check-raise the turn in case CO doesn't have the K and to get the BB out. But since you didn't, river bet is good.

Roy6 · #5 12-17-2005, 09:57 PM

posting blind

your hand is way to good preflop.
I like to 3-bet even against tighties risking being capped preflop 'cause I want to play it HU.
Here you are crushing PFR's range.
If BB calls cold 2... I can live with that.

TomBrooks · #6 12-17-2005, 10:53 PM

3bet preflop to isolate, bet the flop for value, bet the turn as a semibluff, and check the river to induce a bluff with the intention of checkraising. Ya, that's the ticket.

MicroBob · #7 12-18-2005, 01:51 AM

I agree with 3-betting pre-flop.

Check-call on the flop seems weak to me but I'm really not certain where betting out or a check-raise would be better here. I'm thinking C/R most of the time.

bnorthro · #8 12-18-2005, 03:18 AM

Thanks for the replies.

Sounds like the consensus is for 3 betting preflop. Lets say you 3 bet and get capped, do you check/call the flop? Check/raise fold to 3 bet? Bet/call? Peel one on the flop and fold if the str8 draw doesn't develop?

In this hand, villian had AK and i had a pretty sweet suckout, but I obviously misplayed it a bit.

JoshuaD · #9 12-18-2005, 03:22 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Its only 22 hands, but if you think CO is raising light here you should 3-bet preflop. Checkraise the flop and go from there. Your hand is good a lot unless CO only bets with top pair or stuff.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm a little late to the thread, but I agree w/ the sentiment here.

The only thing I'd say differently is that I'm 3-betting here against an unknown. The weak read just makes it easier. I need a specific read to not 3-bet here.