Something different - KK

[Wynton]

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This ignores the read on the player as LP.

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Postflop read is Normal/Passive.

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Perhaps I misinterpreted. I see in your OP you said "Postflop he is normal/passive, playing a reasonable number of hands but not betting or raising enough."

That still suggests to me that the villain is unlikely to raise without a better hand. But I guess the line really depends on how "passive" or how "normal" the opponent is postflop. The more "normal," the more I like it.

[PokerBob]

i don't like it.

[Spicymoose]

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Hero's hand may be awesome, but a lot of the hands you mentioned fold the flop if Hero bets.

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hero is still making lots of money on bets that go in on the flop. he's 42% against an ace and everything else is pretty close to drawing dead, and theres lots of hands that will call drawing dead here

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He may be making lots of money on bets that go in the flop, but if villain folds hands that would of put money in the turn, we are giving up a decent amount of EV by betting the flop.

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Which unpaired no-heart draw hands that fold the flop will bet the turn exactly?

Krishan

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Villain may be normal/passive postflop, but I think that even these players might stab occasionally on this scary board after having the turn checked through. Hero 3-bet preflop, and then seems to be scared of the board. QJ or similar hands might think that they can win this by betting the turn. Furthermore, 77-QQ ocassionaly folds to the flop bet, even from this type of player. We get money from him if we check the flop though.

[StellarWind]

A couple of comments on the early responses.

1. PokerStove: many of the hands I am ahead of on the flop are completely dead. They have zero outs to a draw that has pot odds to call the turn. Whether a hand like Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] folds on the flop or turn is immaterial. When doing your pot equity computations you should exclude this hand because my play isn't relevant--checking behind and driving him out with a bet have the same EV. Limit your simulation to hands that will actually call a flop bet.

Except of course that the free card may induce him to put money into the turn/river as a bluff or because he has picked up a pair or gutshot. In that case I gain because he doesn't have adequate odds to invest money.

2. A few of you want to bet the flop so you can consider taking a free card or free showdown. This makes me want to cry. Once you start betting this hand and don't get checkraised/donked your pot equity greatly increases. That's hardly a time to stop betting. The posters who want to bet the flop and keep firing have a much better case.

[Guruman]

I think I would like this more if villain were more aggressive and could be counted on to bluff the turn when the flop checks through.

In that instance, checking the flop and raising the turn would be an awesome move if villain doesn't have the discipline to lay the hand down (or if he has a med pp with a heart like T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img])

the board pairing wouldn't be crazy troublesome to me, becaue no one raises pf with AA and just calls when you threebet. The only hands you're worried about are 22 and 44 that missed a flop checkraise, and both are moderately unlikely.

When a passive (or even semi-passive) leads the turn though, big aces and made flushes become a much greater portion of his range. Given that this guy wasn't aggressive enough to be counted on to bluff, I think we have to bet this flop and get through a non-heart turn as cheaply as we can (though we'll bet if checked to).

If he leads the turn after a flop bet, I fold the river UI, or check through if he checks.

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The posters who want to bet the flop and keep firing have a much better case.

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...than those that want to bet the flop to take a free river. I totally agree. But, I think you're undervaluing the value a flop check-behind has by inducing a turn bet from decent, but nearly dead hands (e.g. QQ through 55 with or w/o a heart).

I'd like to read your opinion of this too, if you don't mind sharing it.

[milesdyson]

stellar: people saying to take a free showdown are thinking (i assume) that this player perhaps will be calling flop and turn bets with a hand like KJ[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] or Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]J. sure our equity is sky high, but the fact remains that a river bet becomes sketchy because he won't call with much we beat, and he most likely caps JJ and QQ so those should be discounted when we speak of river value betting.

it would seem that the way you played this hand only allows for two big bets to be put in postflop when he actually has an ace.

[StellarWind]

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Perhaps I misinterpreted. I see in your OP you said "Postflop he is normal/passive, playing a reasonable number of hands but not betting or raising enough."

That still suggests to me that the villain is unlikely to raise without a better hand. But I guess the line really depends on how "passive" or how "normal" the opponent is postflop. The more "normal," the more I like it.

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Normal/passive is the place between tight/passive and loose/passive. This is a stat-based read with hundreds of hands but no personal insight. I don't know if he would make the fold with 77 or not, except to say that he has poor-player stats and folding pairs does not come easily to poor players.

It is my experience that otherwise passive players sometimes become more aggressive when they can represent a hand that I am very unlikely to be able to beat. I'm unlikely to have flopped the flush here so I'm prepared for both bluffs and aggressive value betting.

[bobhalford]

Yeah I don't think a situation like this HU with a monotone A - high flop is something that is helped all that much with a read. If it was a very loose aggressive player you may want to go to war with this hand, but against other players, especailly passive ones, you won't know all that much about his hand because a bet on the flop could mean several things. If he sees hero as a TAG, this won't help him out either in understanding hero's flop check.

I like the flop check for the reasons mentioned - that only hands that beat you put money into the pot, so better to see a turn card. But I like to bet while the betting is good - on the flop for value with a strong hand. The passive may not bluff the turn with QQ/JJ if he doesn't have a heart, but may call the flop hoping that you are on a heart draw and not the Ace. The passive may not call a turn bet without the Ace if you check the flop, so really all you are hoping for is to be bet into on the turn with a worse hand. The passive will be afraid you have the A or flush, so this is unlikely.

[StellarWind]

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Which unpaired no-heart draw hands that fold the flop will bet the turn exactly?

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Apparently K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] will. MHIG.