88 in the SB

LegoDoom · #1 12-29-2005, 04:02 AM

No stats on villan, but he played loose-aggressive up to this point(especially postflop).

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is SB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP1 raises, 1 fold, MP3 calls, 2 folds, Hero calls, 1 fold.

Flop: (7 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets, MP3 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (5 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets, MP3 folds, Hero raises...

He seemed like he'd fire on the flop and turn even if he only had overcards, so I was thinking I'd checkraise him if a blank hit on the turn. Now I'm not so sure that I shouldn't have done it on the flop.

Can anyone give me a reason behind a better line?

toss · #2 12-29-2005, 04:23 AM

I'd donk bet the flop if I thought MP1 will raise me with overcards or a weaker hand. I want MP3 to fold a hand that can potentially beat ours. If MP1 just calls and MP3 call too I'd lead a safe turn. If an Ace shows up on the turn I'd check and fold if MP1 bets and MP3 calls. Otherwise I'd call MP1 down if MP3 folds.

If MP1 raises our flop lead I'd 3-bet if MP3 folds and just call if MP3 calls. When MP3 calls we must fear either a better hand or a flushdraw. We play accordingly by not putting more bets than are needed to go to showdown. We fold if a scare card hits or MP3 wakes up at any point.

If MP1 caps I'd look to fold the turn. That is unless MP1 is capable of capping the flop with overcards in which case we must showdown unless an Ace falls.

LegoDoom · #3 12-29-2005, 04:37 AM

I agree that's a much better line. Everyone else at the table seemed fairly terrible, so MP3 could've had a wide range of hands.

If Villan raises a flop bet and MP3 calls, what does that limit his range to? Flush draw, a 9 or a pocket pair? If I think it's not a 9, then why shouldn't I 3-bet?

And if MP3 and I just call a flop raise and a blank hits on the turn, would it be correct to go for a check-raise in that scenario?

toss · #4 12-29-2005, 04:51 AM

Good questions you are asking.

When MP3 calls a raise cold on the flop that usually means he has a hand. This could mean a flush draw, a 9, sometimes a pocket pair and sometimes an overpair. If MP3 has a flush draw he'll usually have a hand like J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] or K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. Its unlikely he'll coldcall preflop with 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] or 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. Notice when MP3 has a flushdraw he also holds 6 more out to beats us for a total of 15 outs! We also must worry about MP1 who will often hold overcards himself. That means a lot of turn cards will hurt us. 3-betting the flop is not as likely to be +EV for us anymore. We call the flop raise along with MP3 and we can choose to either bet out again, checkraise, checkcall, or fold depending on what the turn is.

Another reason not to 3-bet the flop when MP3 cold calls a raise is that he may have a hand that already beats us. 3-betting would make us lose money in this case. Only when MP3 holds a underpair will 3-betting be +EV and only thinly so.

****

If MP3 just calls the flop raise and a blank hits the turn it maybe best to checkraise if you're sure MP3 will bet again with overcards. The reason I don't like doing so is that we must be pretty sure we have the best hand when we go for a checkraise. The combined dangers of having the turn checked through and not having the best hand along with the fact that there are many rivers that are bad for us leads me to believe betting the turn is the best play.

LegoDoom · #5 12-29-2005, 05:17 AM

I did see coldcalls with T8s at this table (although not specifically from MP3), so I can't just put him on two overcards with a flush draw.

Seems right. Thanks toss.

toss · #6 12-29-2005, 05:21 AM

If he has T8s that still means bad news since he has an open ended straight draw with 3 pair outs.

LegoDoom · #7 12-29-2005, 05:36 AM

I guess I was more worried about the flop decision with my above post. He'd be calling with the flush draw anyway, but I was trying to say that it could be possible a hand like 67s, K8s, etc could be calling here.