pp 100+9: did this have to happen?

THWAP! · #1 05-13-2005, 12:21 PM

villian is a lag. i mean, in most hands. lots of betting and raising. you know.

comments on all sts, esp. turn welcome

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (8 handed) converter

UTG+1 (t905)
MP1 (t780)
MP2 (t1095)
CO (t740)
Button (t2715)
SB (t1510)
hero (t1605)
UTG (t650)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
5 folds, Button raises to t150, 1 fold, hero raises to t600, Button calls t450.

Flop: (t1225) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
hero bets t500, Button calls t500.

Turn: (t2225) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
hero checks, Button bets t600, hero calls t505 (All-In).

River: (t3330) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: t3330

Results in white below: 
hero has Qh Qc (three of a kind, queens).
Button has 8h 9h (straight, ten high).
Outcome: Button wins t3330.

Bill Poker · #2 05-13-2005, 12:56 PM

preflop: call raise
on flop: bet 3/4 pot, 200-250, if called, done with this hand.

just my 0.02

THWAP! · #3 05-13-2005, 12:58 PM

if you have someone who's constantly stealing, i think you have to play back at them, especially when you have a hand. otherwise, the worst thing that happens when they steal is one of the blinds calls. big deal to them, right?

Meatmaw · #4 05-13-2005, 01:04 PM

If he's lag, I play back with a *more* aggressive demeanor when I do play, unless I've got a monster (which we don't here). preflop is fine, push on the flop. The way I see it, the first recourse of a LAG is to meekly call, so the best aggressive action by you is to push the chips in his face. I suppose an alternative is to check-push if you are observing that he seems to bet out with anything on the flop.

The point is not to go half-way when you bet with LAGs. I did that last night with QQ on a TT6 flop, betting pot, getting called, and checking the turn. Been kicking myself since watching his KQ catch a K on the river. Never again. (That is, unless someone wishes to point out why I played *that* incorrectly, I'm all ears.)

shejk · #5 05-13-2005, 01:06 PM

Hmm, you could push preflop. I'd often raise as you did though.

On the flop, I'd probably put my stack in. Your bet is rather weak. If you aren't comfortable with that, just check it and see what he does. This is what fucks up the turn... what do you do if he calls? If you're gonna call his bet on the turn with the worst possible card, you should put it all in here.

theordinaryboy · #6 05-13-2005, 01:09 PM

i agree with shejk

pre-flop = fine

flop = push or check (then probably fold to a bet, it sucks but you still have 1000 odd chips left which isnt too bad)

the decision of push or check/fold is read dependant, its a shame your out of position.

gumpzilla · #7 05-13-2005, 01:13 PM

I really don't like the flop bet. You've just put slightly more than half of your stack in but are still offering him 3.4:1 direct odds, and I think most draws are going to call you there. Doing so, you've also pot committed yourself. Push here if you're going to bet.

The turn is the worst card in the deck for you. If you weren't happy getting your stack in on the flop, I hate check-calling here when all of the possible draws got there, though thanks to your flop bet you're kind of pot stuck.

I also think that I would have reraised to something more like 400 or 450 PF, but I think your PF bet is probably okay.

freemoney · #8 05-13-2005, 01:16 PM

you have to raise pre, if you decide to play for ur stack on the flop open push.

lutefisk · #9 05-13-2005, 01:17 PM

The card you least wanted to see came on the flop (A). Then the card you least wanted to see came on the turn (diamond). You didn't push, so you've still got some chips left. Not many, but still 10BB, and I think you're almost always beat here. The LAG factor almost makes me want to call, but LAG's love flush draws too. That's my opinion anyway.

"Only after the 10th punch will you see the fist, and only after the 20th will you block it." --Proverb from the game of Go

wiggs73 · #10 05-13-2005, 01:19 PM

interesting that you especially wanted comments on the turn. i think pre-flop and the flop are the most crucial here since by the time the turn card comes, you have 2/3 of your chips in the pot. getting the rest in is pretty much a given and he's calling an all-in.

pre-flop, i think is fine. i like the re-raise with the queens and think it's the correct move.

on the flop though, i'm either pushing or folding. there's already 1200 in the pot so a push wouldn't be beyond reason. from here, it's completely read-dependent. if you think he has an ace that he will not fold to an all-in, you check-fold. if you think he doesn't have an ace, or will fold an ace to a push, you push. given the size of the pot and the amount of chips invested, i think these are your only 2 real options though.