10x Rule (again) - leak in my game

[rachelwxm]

Chill, welcome back! [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]
Since I play a lot star games these days, I do see your point.
I tend to use 1/3 rule, so if you believe 2.5bb raise is enough as a steal, 7.5bb is all in threshold. Star do carry much slower blinds structure, especially regular games. I have lots of come back at 2table SNGs when I was down to 5bb or less. If I am at botton with 5bb left and blinds is not going to increase soon. I have as many as extra 6-8 hands to see before posting blinds.

Sometimes I even abandon 1/3 rule for some cases. Like I am at botton w A3o and 10bb left. If I raise 3bb and solid bb reraise all in, I might consider fold here if I think he would not do that without a high ace or pp.

Just some random thoughts. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[spentrent]

Hmmmm... I think I see where you're going. Something I like about Stars is the "Stats" tab. If I've been card-starved and I've played only 7-10% of my hands to a flop, then I feel like I can steal with a smaller raise instead of simply pushing.

Of course I'd be aware of this if it were the only table I were playing. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[Klak]

the rule can surly be adjusted or cheated on for different structures. a good player is going to know what to do and shouldnt have to follow any hard and fast rules. i like the 10BB rule because it stops me from second guessing myself and improves my table image. people are more likly to call with a weak hand if you have been throwing your chips around and going all in a lot.

[Bigwig]

The 10xBB rule, or 9XBB, depending on opinion, I always assumed was based on the mathematics of pot odds, unless you're raising with total garbage for a steal (ie, 83o). Because at this stack size, there isn't a hand worth folding to a reraise. I don't see how the 10BB rule doesn't apply the same in all cases, save for extreme bubble examples where others have smaller stacks than yourself.

[Klak]

i like to use the rule even more liberally when my opponent has less than 10BB and i have more. you put them on a decision for all their chips which is one of the best plays in no limit.

[lorinda]

From a post of mine yesterday.

[ QUOTE ]
There is another sub-plot that I don't hear mentioned often, which is the difference in sites.
At Party, when you hit the 7BB or so mark, you are looking at not only posting 1.5BB in blinds to take you to 5.5BB but also at the blinds increasing before it gets back to you, which might take you down to 3-4 BB.

This means your folding equity is soon going to be cruelly taken from you by the rules of the game.

In a game like the one at Stars, you can often know that you can fold down to 5.5BB and that you'll still have those 5.5BB for at least another orbit.
This means that by not raising you have cost yourself a little less time than you have on Party because you will still retain your chances of a push working next time around.

Lori


[/ QUOTE ]

[Bigwig]

[ QUOTE ]
i like to use the rule even more liberally when my opponent has less than 10BB and i have more. you put them on a decision for all their chips which is one of the best plays in no limit.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. Assuming, of course, that you know you're the only two in the pot. You mean something like this?--

Hero SB (t3000)
Villain BB (t1000)

Blinds 75/150.

All fold to Hero A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Hero raises all-in.

[chill888]

[ QUOTE ]
The 10xBB rule, or 9XBB, depending on opinion, I always assumed was based on the mathematics of pot odds, unless you're raising with total garbage for a steal (ie, 83o). Because at this stack size, there isn't a hand worth folding to a reraise. I don't see how the 10BB rule doesn't apply the same in all cases, save for extreme bubble examples where others have smaller stacks than yourself.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll give you a simple example .... and there are many.

You have 1400 left, blinds 75 150. 5 left.

You have KQs.

You bet 450 and someone puts you all-in. You know him. he is tight, he respects your raises, he only plays good hands, he isn't shorter stacked than you.

In this case - for example - Bayes theorem - easily outweighs pot odds (or at least misapplied excuse to call - pot odds).


In other words, when you are up against an opponent that will respect your raises - 3x or 10x - and who will have a big hand if he rereaise (ie a good player) then there is no need to 10x raise and it is asking for trouble.


IMHO

[chill888]

[ QUOTE ]
From a post of mine yesterday.

[ QUOTE ]
There is another sub-plot that I don't hear mentioned often, which is the difference in sites.
At Party, when you hit the 7BB or so mark, you are looking at not only posting 1.5BB in blinds to take you to 5.5BB but also at the blinds increasing before it gets back to you, which might take you down to 3-4 BB.

This means your folding equity is soon going to be cruelly taken from you by the rules of the game.

In a game like the one at Stars, you can often know that you can fold down to 5.5BB and that you'll still have those 5.5BB for at least another orbit.
This means that by not raising you have cost yourself a little less time than you have on Party because you will still retain your chances of a push working next time around.

Lori


[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]


LOL, wisdom as alway just IMHO. Sorry if I implied your first quote was incomplete

gl

[chill888]

[ QUOTE ]
From a post of mine yesterday.

[ QUOTE ]
There is another sub-plot that I don't hear mentioned often, which is the difference in sites.
At Party, when you hit the 7BB or so mark, you are looking at not only posting 1.5BB in blinds to take you to 5.5BB but also at the blinds increasing before it gets back to you, which might take you down to 3-4 BB.

This means your folding equity is soon going to be cruelly taken from you by the rules of the game.

In a game like the one at Stars, you can often know that you can fold down to 5.5BB and that you'll still have those 5.5BB for at least another orbit.
This means that by not raising you have cost yourself a little less time than you have on Party because you will still retain your chances of a push working next time around.

Lori


[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]


LOL, wisdom as alway just IMHO. Sorry if I implied your first quote was incomplete

gl