10x Rule (again) - leak in my game

[chill888]

[ QUOTE ]


Excuse me for being a little harsh, but when reading posts, (and this goes for everyone) it is CRITICAL that you read the limit the hand was played at.
I will often give directly opposing advice to myself about an identical hand played at a different limit.

Lori

[/ QUOTE ]

Lori is correct but just as importantly, is WHERE you are playing.

After strongly arguing against the 10x rule a few months back, it slowly slipped into my game and became (temporarily) my biggest leak. My mistake, (I believe) was following advice more suitable for Party than for Stars.

I play mainly at Stars (usually the $50 and $100). S&Gs OFTEN last upwards of 150 hands. It is not unusual to have 4 people left at 100 hands played.

At Stars the blinds rise every 10 minutes. The structure at PARTY is SOOOOO different where the blinds rise every 10 hands.

Early on, this is no big deal. Late game 10 hands with 3 or 4 players left, can take 2 minutes. Bottom line, 10x may be a good rule at Party but at Stars there is much more going on and the slower BB increase late game means several things:

1. With only 10x BB left in your hand you have far more potential hands remaining than at Party.
2. It's easier to get a read on opponents
3. Thus, small (eg 2x) raises often win the pot.
4. Against many opponents, raising 2x/3x and being reraised, it is often clear you must (correctly) fold - and you can often have some certainty on whether it is a steal or not.
5. Patience still rewards late game (yes of course you must get more aggressive as people disappear).
6. etc etc etc (sorry tired)

One may argue that the 10x rule still apllies but you need higher standards at Stars. Maybe. Still considering this.

But people coming from Party to Stars and then getting crazy with ATs, etc. will struggle hugely.

gl

[spentrent]

Hey so what's your opinion on my game? At Stars (20s and 30s) I cross the all-or-nothing line at 7xBB. Am I being impatient? Anything lower than 7 seems like an easy call for a bigger stack holding a Q or higher...

[chill888]

[ QUOTE ]
Hey so what's your opinion on my game? At Stars (20s and 30s) I cross the all-or-nothing line at 7xBB. Am I being impatient? Anything lower than 7 seems like an easy call for a bigger stack holding a Q or higher...

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry for an unsatisfying answer but:

1. Depends on your stack vs others
2. Depends on opponents style
3. Depends on how many left
4. Depends on recent action (yes!!!)....some might call it the flow.
5. Depends on your exact cards.
6. Depends on button position
7. Depends on when Blinds will raise
8. Depends.....

gl

[Klak]

ummmm 10BB is 10BB is 10BB. 10BB is worth the same amount no matter where you are. you get to post 10 big blinds with it. just because it takes longer to get down to 10BB on stars, it is still the same amount in relation to everyone else and the blinds. the blinds may go up slower so u have a little more time, but i think the 10BB (or even 12BB) rule still applies. just learn how to use it.

[spentrent]

I'm assuming that there IS a time for desperation, such as 4 players left, antes, and you're short. The texture of the game ceases to be a factor when you're gonna bust out in 3 rounds.

[chill888]

[ QUOTE ]
ummmm 10BB is 10BB is 10BB. 10BB is worth the same amount no matter where you are. you get to post 10 big blinds with it. just because it takes longer to get down to 10BB on stars, it is still the same amount in relation to everyone else and the blinds. the blinds may go up slower so u have a little more time, but i think the 10BB (or even 12BB) rule still applies. just learn how to use it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for a clueless post. Started to respond but not really worth it. Feel free to disagree with me ... but the structure clearly makes a significant difference to the rule.

Say blinds NEVER increased, you would still play the 10x rule?

[Klak]

you can keep betting 30% of your stack and folding to reraises if you want to. im just trying to help YOU out thats all.

[spentrent]

His post is far from clueless. Why the rage?

[chill888]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm assuming that there IS a time for desperation, such as 4 players left, antes, and you're short. The texture of the game ceases to be a factor when you're gonna bust out in 3 rounds.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, absolutely and often it makes sense to go all-in 10x - even with 72 (if the environment is correct).

My point is that is far less often a good player at a slower structure.

[chill888]

[ QUOTE ]
His post is far from clueless. Why the rage?

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry for the rage... multitabling (no excuse).

But his post said NOTHING - i'd have appreciated any insight. He just said 10x = 10x - and was rude enough himself.

Clearly the environment has an impact. Perhaps 10x is still correct in a Stars environment .. I am quite certain it is not (at least for my style) -- or at a minimum it should be applied FAR more judiciously.

gl