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  #1  
Old 03-05-2005, 09:35 AM
Scuba Chuck Scuba Chuck is offline
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Default What is a hand?

After reading (halfway so far) HOHE, there's a piece that would be very useful tool to many posters here on the forum. I highly recommend the book so far, and in particular, the piece I'm talking about is on pages 16-23.

Essentially, it sums up like this. An amateur is asking a pro for advice on a hand. The amateur, from memory, recounts what he remembers of the hand, which basicly comes down to an egocentric point of view - his cards, and his stack.

To the amateur, "his hand was the cards he held, and what the players immediately before and after him did. To the 'pro,' a 'hand' was a lot more than that. It's an entire situation, fulll of different elements, which has to be seen as a whole before good plays can be made."

So what does that mean to a regular Sit n Go poster on the forum here? (much of this has been taken right from HOHE)

Well, to me, the info that I would need to help give NL advice - in order - would be the following.

1. What limit are you playing?
2. What are the blinds (and beginning chip structure)?
3. How many players remaining?
4. What is your stack?
5. What are the stacks of the remaining players and their position?
6. Where do you sit in relation to the blinds?
7. Do you have any table reads?
8. What has been the action before you?
9. How many players remaining to act behind you?
10. Are there any relevant pot odds?
11. Will you have position after the flop?
12. Finally, what are your cards?

Without all this information, advice can vary greatly between posters. Without all this information, you are not considering the situation as a whole. Sit N Gos are not just about the cards.
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  #2  
Old 03-05-2005, 04:06 PM
asofel asofel is offline
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Default Re: What is a hand?

nice post scuba...

a quick nerdy thought: think there's any benefit to having a "standard" template to posts asking for advice? it might take 1 minute longer to post fully, but all of the info would be there, and the more people that use it the easier it'd be to really analyze hands fully. The template could be something like your 10 points listed. It'd be easy to just run down the list and see "ok, this is the limit, read, etc of the situation" and then go from there. Just a thought, and something we obviusly couldn't force...
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  #3  
Old 03-05-2005, 04:24 PM
pokerlaw pokerlaw is offline
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Default Re: What is a hand?

Just got HOHE on wednesday and am almost done. I've read SuperSystem and Cloutier/McEvoy PLNL and I rate HOHE the best by far. Fluid and scientific in it's analysis, with practice hands that are far more practical than Cloutier's. Can't wait for volume two.
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  #4  
Old 03-05-2005, 04:46 PM
microbet microbet is offline
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Default Re: What is a hand?

Took me a while to figure out what HOHE meant eventhough I just read that book.

I really liked it a lot. He has a lot of examples of online single table tournaments, but wherever the example is from he goes through his thinking very clearly. He never touches on buy-in or the blind structures which are topics that are so relevant in this forum, so don't blindly do what he does, but thinking through the hands yourself and reading his comments afterwards is very valuable whether you agree exactly or not.

Scuba, unless I have you mixed up with someone else, you are very conservative and you in particular probably find some of Harrington's advice a bit loose both preflop and after flopping second pair or something.

I would think his one-table advice is sometimes a little better at the higher buy-ins where you can't afford to miss even small +$EV moves.

Is this also true is a large tourney? I mean not being able to miss small +$EV spots? Maybe because you are up against such a large field which will certainly contain a decent number of very good players, even if the average player isn't that good.

Sorry, El Maximo, for not discussing this book on your board.
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  #5  
Old 03-05-2005, 11:56 PM
Scuba Chuck Scuba Chuck is offline
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Default Re: What is a hand?

[ QUOTE ]
Scuba, unless I have you mixed up with someone else, you are very conservative and you in particular probably find some of Harrington's advice a bit loose both preflop and after flopping second pair or something.


[/ QUOTE ]

Huh, that's funny that you think that way. From what I've read so far, (not finished yet) I think my style of play is not too dissimilar from Mr Harrington's.
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  #6  
Old 03-05-2005, 11:59 PM
Scuba Chuck Scuba Chuck is offline
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Default Re: What is a hand?

[ QUOTE ]
nice post scuba...

a quick nerdy thought: think there's any benefit to having a "standard" template to posts asking for advice?

[/ QUOTE ]

Most posters don't realize how much information is already given when they 'cut and paste' an HH from a particular SNG. They usually then feel compelled to offer some other info in the box to fill in the white space. Usually, this is enough. The problems generally occur when there is a post that starts like this. "I was in this hand last night, and from memory, this is what happened...."

What follows from here can tell a lot about the player.
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  #7  
Old 03-06-2005, 12:07 AM
microbet microbet is offline
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Default Re: What is a hand?

I think you have just referred to yourself as weak-tight about a million times, so that is probably why it is my impression, not from any particular post.
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  #8  
Old 03-06-2005, 12:10 AM
Scuba Chuck Scuba Chuck is offline
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Default Re: What is a hand?

[ QUOTE ]
think you have just referred to yourself as weak-tight

[/ QUOTE ]

I am known to exaggerate (of course I never lie [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]). But I do believe there are parts within tournaments that weak tight is the way to play. The easiest example is letting go of small edges.
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  #9  
Old 07-08-2005, 06:01 PM
nova nova is offline
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Default Re: What is a hand?

After being linked from another thread (one about JJ) I think that this section of HOHE was defintiley great. I believe in volume one he busted out a similar thing, with a conversation between an inexperienced person and a pro.

I do like how most of the examples in the newest volume relate to online tournaments. I was talking to a friend that doesn't really subscribe to any sort of 'any two' moves, however he doesn't play a lot online. With the fast paced nature of SnG's, I think most of us are more open to these ideas.

My library is getting decently big, I know there's a thread out there with the 'must have' books and w/out looking at it I'm guessing that I have the majority of them. Definiely recommend HOHE [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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