A/Ks, capped 4 ways p/f and flop

marchron · #1 08-28-2005, 03:30 PM

Reads:
UTG+1 is solid.
MP1 is a little loose.
CO said in chat that he's 18 years old. He plays like it.

.50/1, 9-handed

Preflop: marchron is BT with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
1 fold, UTG+1 raises, MP1 calls, 2 folds, CO reraises, marchron caps, 2 folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, CO calls.

I need a big pot, as I've been downswinging hard recently.

Flop: (17.5 SB) 10[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)

UTG+1 bets, MP1 calls, CO raises, marchron calls, UTG+1 reraises, MP1 calls, CO calls, marchron caps, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, CO calls.

I didn't want to three-bet and lose anyone, but when it was three-bet later I figured I might as well go ahead and cap it. I figure someone has a set — do I still have the equity to raise for value here?

Turn: (16.5 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG+1 bets, MP1 calls, CO calls, marchron calls.

Now I've picked up a gutshot. Again, can I raise for value? I have 12 outs (I figure the A's and K's are all but worthless, since someone probably has A/A or K/K).

River: (20.5 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+1 bets, MP1 folds, CO calls, marchron folds.

Ace-high is so not winning this.

Final Pot: 21.75 BB (after rake)

aK13 · #2 08-28-2005, 03:40 PM

Awesome. I believe you could raise for value on the turn again with something around 12 outs to the nuts vs. 4 players, but if the initial bettor 3bets, you might lose some players, and then your raise has no value.

aargh57 · #3 08-28-2005, 03:47 PM

If it's me I'm re-raising the flop. I don't think you can necessarily put anyone on AA or KK. While it's a possibility I think their range of hands are still pretty wide. AA,KK,QQ,JJ,TT,AK,AQ,AJ,AT,KQ, or even worse are possible. I could see UTG+1 betting out with many of these especially if he's got a backdoor flush/strt draw. I think raising to try and nock someone out is better as you may still win by spiking A or K. CO could be on a strt or flush draw also.

I raise the turn. Even if you don't count your overcards, you're only a 2.8 to one dog to make a hand with 12 outs and even if all 3 don't call, implied odds would probably make up for this. Of course, if UTG+1 re-raises and nocks the others out it's not so good but I think it's worth a raise here.

River fold is standard especially with CO calling.

One thing I would note is to not worry about your downswing when playing. If it's going to affect you, move down to a lower level or take a little break.

aargh57 · #4 08-28-2005, 03:54 PM

Ok Ak13,

You're right, I suck. When CO raises the flop you gotta figure that you're beat so spiking an A or K won't help. You have to be looking for the flush. Sometimes I get into the big draw mode and start re-raising when I don't look at what we want to accomplish. Here, it's obvious you want callers so re-raising isn't good.

istewart · #5 08-28-2005, 03:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Ok Ak13,

You're right, I suck. When CO raises the flop you gotta figure that you're beat so spiking an A or K won't help. You have to be looking for the flush. Sometimes I get into the big draw mode and start re-raising when I don't look at what we want to accomplish. Here, it's obvious you want callers so re-raising isn't good.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, your ace and king outs definitely have some value in this pot. QQ/JJ are both very real possibilities. Obviously the turn changes the chance an A or K will win it for you though.

I think the whole hand was played well. I used to like raising the turn here but found/learned that it is better to just call, as sometimes you can get 3-bet and lose customers, therefore paying more bets than necessary to see the river, or you will be checked to on the river and only earn one big bet from each caller as opposed to two.

CashFlo · #6 08-28-2005, 04:16 PM

i think hero's line in this hand on the flop is perfect. he kept 3 other players in his hand and still managed to cap the flop (which is correct due to his pot equity). if he had reraised initially, perhaps the flop wouldn't have got capped or maybe MP1 would've dropped and his raise would've been incorrect b/c of decreased equity.

Redd · #7 08-28-2005, 04:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Awesome. I believe you could raise for value on the turn again with something around 12 outs to the nuts vs. 4 players, but if the initial bettor 3bets, you might lose some players, and then your raise has no value.

[/ QUOTE ]

Plus we sacrifice an excellence positional raise if we hit our hand on the river. By paying the turn raise in advance, we give up our option to put in that extra bet with the nuts or not put it in with ace-high on the river.

marchron · #8 08-29-2005, 03:36 AM

I didn't specifically fear A/A or K/K until the turn, when I had to decide whether or not to raise. Due to my read and his nonstop aggression, I put UTG+1 on a set, A/A or K/K and I figured he'd three-bet it.

Even if CO didn't call, I wouldn't have. At the absolute best, I chop with another A/K and beat an extremely unlikely A/J. Not even a pot that huge would tempt me to call down with ace-high.

And I was right:
UTG+1 has 10h 10c (three of a kind, tens).
CO mucks 10d Ad (one pair, tens).
Outcome: UTG+1 wins 21.75 BB.

aK13 · #9 08-29-2005, 03:40 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ok Ak13,

You're right, I suck. When CO raises the flop you gotta figure that you're beat so spiking an A or K won't help. You have to be looking for the flush. Sometimes I get into the big draw mode and start re-raising when I don't look at what we want to accomplish. Here, it's obvious you want callers so re-raising isn't good.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, your ace and king outs definitely have some value in this pot. QQ/JJ are both very real possibilities. Obviously the turn changes the chance an A or K will win it for you though.

I think the whole hand was played well. I used to like raising the turn here but found/learned that it is better to just call, as sometimes you can get 3-bet and lose customers, therefore paying more bets than necessary to see the river, or you will be checked to on the river and only earn one big bet from each caller as opposed to two.

[/ QUOTE ]

FWIW, we're pwned by QQ, and I'd be surprised at anybody that leads JJ on the turn after a preflop and flop cap when an over falls.

istewart · #10 08-29-2005, 04:05 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Obviously the turn changes the chance an A or K will win it for you though.

[/ QUOTE ]