A Pokerbot has finally arrived.

[jedi]

Okay, so let's recap:

Winholdem support says that this program and cardsharing (i.e. cheating) will enhance "YOUR" poker experience. (meaning mine, or anyone else who read that sentence)

Pudley asks how this would enhance his poker experience.

Winholdem support doesn't answer for many moons, choosing instead to avoid other direct inquiries. One example is about folding AA pre-flop. The reply is to download the program yourself and find out, even though the original questioner said he wouldn't download the program

Pudley repeats the original question and asks for an answer about 10 times.

Support finally says: Well, it helps "MY" experience, I don't know what it will do for you.

Boy, there's more backpedaling here than a politician on Crossfire.

And it's still cheating, no matter what you think.

[ QUOTE ]
pudley,

i can't speak for you.
for myself i will say that the experience is great.
the experience is twice as fun when you have a trusted friend on your side.


[/ QUOTE ]

[Inthacup]

WHAT THE [censored] ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT




Teammates? There are no teams at a poker table, at least no legitmate ones.


if both stacks are betting there is double the risk with less than double the advantage.


Bullshit. Double the risk? Are both stacks sharing a bankroll?


knowing my friends cards isn't gonnna change the fact that my flush is about to get beat by an opponents full-house.

No, but it DOES change whether you bet/raise/fold. Knowing an opponents hole cards is an unfair advantage and you know it. I understand that you are motivated to make money off this POS product, therefore you're desperately trying to rationalize it, but this is the biggest crock of [censored] I've ever read in my life.


and if my friend was pot jacking for me then we just lost way more than we would if he hadn't done that.


How often does an opponent fill up vs. a flush? Not nearly as many times as his 2 pair gets unfairly jacked up by two CHEATERS intentionally colluding.


i'd say mostly it is a social thing ... among comrades ... if your hand sucks and you fold then you get to be a spectator while your teammate plays their hand.

This can happen just as easily at seperate tables.


btw if anybody out there really believes that you get some huge advantage by cardsharing ... the tables at poker professional will be more than happy to assist you in proving you wrong.


You CAN get a huge advantage. And FWIW, You can shove poker professional up your ASS. It's an unfair advantage and you know it.


it still wont change the fact that in poker there is only one thing to remember:

THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTE FOR GOOD CARDS



That's the only thing to remember in poker? Do you actually play poker? After saying something as stupid as this, I doubt it.


ok, so you made a bot. You're trying to make a buck off it. Whatever. Just don't come here trying to justify it. You will never be able to convince honest players that your program doesn't unfairly influence the game.



Cup

[pudley4]

[ QUOTE ]
i'd say mostly it is a social thing ... among comrades ... if your hand sucks and you fold then you get to be a spectator while your teammate plays their hand.


[/ QUOTE ]

I already said this would not be an acceptable answer because your program allows me to find out the information before I fold my hand.

[ QUOTE ]
also, if you think that sharing between two teammates at the table somehow gives them this superman magic over the game you are very mistaken.

[/ QUOTE ]

No one here is saying that. However, it is cheating, and it does give you an advantage.

[ QUOTE ]
if both stacks are betting there is double the risk with less than double the advantage.

knowing my friends cards isn't gonnna change the fact that my flush is about to get beat by an opponents full-house.

[/ QUOTE ]

Something as simple as knowing that your friend had the A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] means you can reraise your opponent when you have the K high flush.

Or knowing that your friend folded 77 means you won't draw to your 689T gutshot.

Little decisions like these can add up to a lot when you're trying to make 1BB/hr.

[WinHoldemSupport]

fleece,

the winholdem fix for party has been released.
close all instances of winholdem and reload/relaunch.
look on the view menu and select a random title for your bot.

winholdem support.

[WinHoldemSupport]

zilla,

the winholdem fix for party has been released.
just close everything and reload/relaunch.
look on the view menu and hide your title bar
to some random name.

winholdem support.

[WinHoldemSupport]

[ QUOTE ]

Also, why are you debating the morality of your product here. No one's mind is going to be changed so why bother.

If you are interested in making the bot better let us know.


[/ QUOTE ]

we are only debating the morality of the situation because others like pud keep pressing the issue.

for us it is no longer a debate and we are not conflicted in the least about winholdem or about sharing or teaming. we've already announced that there will be a non-team version and it will cost less than the team version ...

so all you purists out there who despise and hate and detest the idea of mucking with classic form of poker can take pleasure in the fact that those who want the team version will pay more.

we will respect your desire to play the original game.
we will respect the desire of others who want to team.

the winholdem channel server stays active round the clock. all we see are number of connections. we dont know which of the 4 billion channels anybody is in and we dont know who is talking to who. nor do we see any information passing between then. all we see is the usage. and it is more than we though it would be.

you can take comfort in the fact that it looks like about 1 out 10 winholdem end-users team on a regular basis and the other 90% just go solo.

our original estimates had demand for teaming at about 1 in 100 end-users.

.... now about the bot...
of course we are interested in making the bot better.
and we certainly desire useful suggestions that add genuine value to the product.

but we don't respond well to insult, injury or threat as is the case with any human being.

and the few of us who agreed to man the boards in defense of winholdem agreed to do it based on one deal breaking demand ... and that was having the freedom to trash talk anybody who starting throwing stones our way. keep in mind there were not people lining up to do this job.

there are several people who answer posts here and as you can probably tell some of them enjoy doing the heated debate think a little more than others (mainly the morning crew) ...

the management at pokerbot.com allows them to do that as long as they do not misrepresent winholdem, and do not take personal shots at anybody.

so, fleece, you bet we'd love to hear your suggestions on how we can make winholdem more valuable than it already is.

winholdem support.

[WinHoldemSupport]

everyone,

this explains some of the things that we have been discussing about winholdem.

http://www.winholdem.net/license_agreement.html

this should answer most if not all of the questions raised here about the product.

winholdem support.

[glen]

This sounds like you are saying that your product faciliates cheating, but since the sites are all onto you and can easily detect your product, you cannot be held accountable when the user's account are frozen. Sounds like a good deal! If anyone installs this now, they would have to have an IQ below 80. Good luck.

[fleece_me]

Winholdem is there a place to discuss this without being mired down in the philosophical debate?

Here are my questions:

What are the values for betposition? And how does it change relative to the number of players? If I am 2 off the button in a 4 handed game what is the betposition value? What about on the button in a full game?

Also, if call and rais both evaluate to true, which one is executed? This can happen when you define conflicting hand values in the hand dialog - i.e. if I define AA to the raise list and thea call list. I think rais is evaluated first but want to doublecheck.

Also, it would be nice if the labels of the 0-9 tabs could be edited.

[fleece_me]

Before the flop, does nopponentsplaying evaluate to the number of people that have called the blinds or does it also include people the haven't acted?

If it includes all people still with cards including those that haven't acted, how can the number of people that have called the blinds preflip be determined?