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#12
09-11-2005, 02:43 AM
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Re: straight-flush draw flop...family pot
I think what finch is getting at is that this is a favorable situation, and being all-in on the flop will produce good results in the long run.
I also see your side, and I agree. You can reduce the risk of losing this tournament while calling and still have the benefit of getting all-in once you hit on a later street since the pot is getting juicy. 
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#13
09-11-2005, 04:09 AM
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Re: straight-flush draw flop...family pot
i disagree that you'll get more action when you hit--- especially if you hit the flush... the straight, maybe-- people pay a straight off more often than a flush.
i like sweetening the pot here--- it doesn't have to be a big raise... and there's no fear of a reraise, so...
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#14
09-11-2005, 05:02 AM
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Re: straight-flush draw flop...family pot
While it's a great drawing hand, I dont think its a "jizz all over myself trying to get my chips in" hand. At this point, you have J high with a draw to the non-nut straight and non-nut flush that is susceptible to redraws if it gets there on the turn.
I like a call here.
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#15
09-11-2005, 05:06 AM
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Re: straight-flush draw flop...family pot
[ QUOTE ]
I think what finch is getting at is that this is a favorable situation, and being all-in on the flop will produce good results in the long run. I also see your side, and I agree. You can reduce the risk of losing this tournament while calling and still have the benefit of getting all-in once you hit on a later street since the pot is getting juicy. [/ QUOTE ] Actually my argument is neither of these. What I'm getting at is, make a small raise to build a bigger pot, hoping to keep most everyone in. If I get reraised, fine -- I push. I'm not afraid of getting all-in here. But ideally everyone will just call, and I'll have a much bigger pot to push into on later streets if I do hit. As a bonus, if the pot is bigger, my push is more likely to be called when I do hit.
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#16
09-11-2005, 05:07 AM
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Re: straight-flush draw flop...family pot
[ QUOTE ]
i disagree that you'll get more action when you hit--- especially if you hit the flush... the straight, maybe-- people pay a straight off more often than a flush. i like sweetening the pot here--- it doesn't have to be a big raise... and there's no fear of a reraise, so... [/ QUOTE ] Exactly.
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#17
09-11-2005, 05:10 AM
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Re: straight-flush draw flop...family pot
[ QUOTE ]
While it's a great drawing hand, I dont think its a "jizz all over myself trying to get my chips in" hand. At this point, you have J high with a draw to the non-nut straight and non-nut flush that is susceptible to redraws if it gets there on the turn. I like a call here. [/ QUOTE ] Actually you are drawing to the nut straight on one end (the 7, not the Q). You're right about the flush, but if you use 2 cards in a flush, the odds of someone else also having a flush are < 1% here. You can pretty much assume that if you hit either big draw, you have the best hand (unless the board pairs). The times when you lose are roughly made up for by the times you hit successive jacks, nines, etc.
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#18
09-11-2005, 05:12 AM
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Re: straight-flush draw flop...family pot
[ QUOTE ]
Actually you are drawing to the nut straight [/ QUOTE ] I realized this was partially true after I posted. Hitting the 7 makes the nuts, the Q does not, although it's difficult to imagine AJ staying in for any heavy action.
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#20
09-11-2005, 05:13 AM
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Re: straight-flush draw flop...family pot
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Actually you are drawing to the nut straight [/ QUOTE ] I realized this was partially true after I posted. Hitting the 7 makes the nuts, the Q does not, although it's difficult to imagine AJ staying in for any heavy action. [/ QUOTE ] Yep. And you hold a J, making AJ less likely. If you get all in and lose to a gutshot -- that's poker.
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