Nervous!

ANother problem I have is this:

I'm in BB and have Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
I check

Flop comes J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Where do I go from here? Obviously I check, but when someone bets? Do I call for one bet having 5 outs to a decent hand? Do I fold?

Me again [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

In this example I muck it to a bet. You have what, bottom pair, 2 spades and JQo. There is nothign there that is going to get better.

There are only 2 more 4's in the deck, only 8% chance of hitting them. (If I got the calculation right!!!!)

You don't want to be putting any more into this pot. I loose more money from the blinds chasing a hand that I have partially hit the flop than anywhere else.

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Thats one of my problems yeah [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]
I tend to play K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] from early position if I get it.

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Wow, yes, get ahold of a tight starting hand chart and follow it closely. I recommend Ed Miller's GSIH for that. I don't have my copy with me or I'd give you the list of playable hands, but K8s isn't on it from early position.

If you really are playing that loose, then you have every reason to be nervous. Tighten up and gain some confidence.

Regards,

T

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I haven't read GSIH - how do the charts there differ from the ones in SSHE.

I have tapped out my book-buying resources for the moment - I have SSHE, TOP and HOH1. I have felt pretty comfortable with the level of knowledge in SSHE, so I don't think GSIH is neccessarily a requirement for me. I am pretty sure that the next book I buy (after re-reading TOP and SSHE) will be HFAP.

I think I may see if GSIH and WLLHE are available at my local library - they may be interesting to look at, but I don't know that I need them for my permanent collection.

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ANother problem I have is this:

I'm in BB and have Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
I check

Flop comes J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Where do I go from here? Obviously I check, but when someone bets? Do I call for one bet having 5 outs to a decent hand? Do I fold?

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Assuming you are right that you have 5 outs - though I am not sure where you get this from - with 46 unseen cards and 5 outs, your draw odds are 9.2-1. Thus, the ONLY way you would call this hand is if the pot is offering you 10-1 odds - which, in the situation you described, would mean that at a full table, everyone limped in pre-flop.

In other words, you fold.

[SheridanCat]

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I haven't read GSIH - how do the charts there differ from the ones in SSHE.


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The guidelines in GSIH are just simpler. It really is a true beginner's book. I think SSHE is not a beginner's book at all.

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I am pretty sure that the next book I buy (after re-reading TOP and SSHE) will be HFAP.


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HEPFAP is great and important, but for the games we are generally playing (low-mid limits) it's not essential. You might look at Feeney's Inside The Poker Mind for an important book.

Regards,

T

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I haven't read GSIH - how do the charts there differ from the ones in SSHE.


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The guidelines in GSIH are just simpler. It really is a true beginner's book. I think SSHE is not a beginner's book at all.

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I am pretty sure that the next book I buy (after re-reading TOP and SSHE) will be HFAP.


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HEPFAP is great and important, but for the games we are generally playing (low-mid limits) it's not essential. You might look at Feeney's Inside The Poker Mind for an important book.

Regards,

T

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Thanks - I will check it out.

So can I conclude that if I am feeling comfortable with the concepts presented in SSHE, then GSIH is probably not neccessary?

[SteveM]

I'm about to say something that I think a lot of people might disagree with, but hear me out.

Maybe try playing two tables if you aren't already. Don't flame me yet!

When I was learning the game in the nanolimits (so the financial consequences were irrelevant) I found that playing 2 tables allowed me to do some psychologically important things.

First, I was able to stick to playing only good starting hands more easily because I'd see them twice as often and wouldn't get impatient in my excitement to play/learn hold 'em.

Second, by playing more hands, I gave myself more opportunities to apply what I'd been studying. I know it is frustrating to read about pumping a flush draw, isolation plays, limp-coldcalling (OK, just kidding on that one! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img])and so on and so on, and then sit there and fold hand after hand waiting for a chance to try it.

Third, Playing more tables cut down on the variance I experienced. I found when I played one table and got bad cards or bad beats, etc. it made me question myself even, like the OP said, expecting to lose. It was so much easier to keep persepctive when that happened at one table but I was killing another table.

So here's my disclaimer: If you are playing losing poker and the money matters to you for any reason, I do not suggest multi-tabling. But if the money doesn't matter and you are just eager to learn the game, go for it if you think the benefits that *I* got out of it would also apply to you.

Good luck!

Steve

OK - here goes. I disagree.

I believe that the first challenge that a new poker player faces is to move away from being an "action" player - meaning that you have to give up the idea that you should be playing bad hands to get in on the action.

This requires a significant amount of discipline - and discipline is a hard think to come by. Playing one table at a time forces you to focus on the hand you are playing and to ask the key questions of whether you should be in the hand and how to react to the action.

Only once the fundamental concepts have been ingrained should you move to more than one table.

[SheridanCat]

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So can I conclude that if I am feeling comfortable with the concepts presented in SSHE, then GSIH is probably not neccessary?

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I believe that is true, yes. It's an interesting book to check out just for the way it presents the information - quiet unique in poker literature, I think - but you probably won't get much from it. You could read it at the library in a couple hours, probably.

Regards,

T

[SheridanCat]

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ANother problem I have is this:

I'm in BB and have Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
I check

Flop comes J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Where do I go from here? Obviously I check, but when someone bets? Do I call for one bet having 5 outs to a decent hand? Do I fold?

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Well, as in all poker situations, it depends. This is a very thin holding, as you know. I can really not think of a situation where I would want to continue playing this. If you are heads up, you might take one off. But that's about it.

I just did a Poker Stove run and was surprised to see that this hand actually has value against random hands with up to two opponents with this board. However, even against the worst players, you will not often be up against a random hand. Give your opponent(s) a bit of credit and you really are drawing thin.

Regards,

T