How would you play this hand with so many dangers?

[SteveGriff]

Ok, sorry that this is in this kind of hand format, but the converter doesn't like Crypto sites. Couple of hands into the session, no real reads as of yet. Redrobbo seemed to have played every hand so far, but KJs seems to be mandatory for pre-flop raising.

Table "Oshkosh" Seat 1 is the button.
Seat 1: Noak (£91.75 in chips)
Seat 2: Chia Tam (£42.56 in chips)
Seat 3: Guv'Nor (£46.96 in chips)
Seat 4: redrobbo (£127.25 in chips)
Seat 5: Hero (£78.25 in chips)
Seat 6: Larry0002 (£35.71 in chips)
Chia Tam: posts small blind £0.50
Guv'Nor: posts big blind £1
----- HOLE CARDS -----
dealt to Hero[Jc Kc]
redrobbo: calls £1
Hero: raises £2
Larry0002: folds
Noak: folds
Chia Tam: calls £1.50
Guv'Nor: calls £1
redrobbo: calls £1

Ok, was the raise ok to begin with?

----- FLOP ----- [Td 9d 5s]
Chia Tam: checks
Guv'Nor: checks
redrobbo: bets £1
Hero: calls £1
Chia Tam: raises £2
Guv'Nor: calls £2
redrobbo: folds
Hero: calls £1

Was this a loose call here on the flop? Fold here or even raise?

----- TURN ----- [Td 9d 5s][8s]
Chia Tam: checks
Guv'Nor: bets £2
Hero: calls £2
Chia Tam: raises £4
Guv'Nor: raises £4
Hero: folds
Chia Tam: raises £4
Guv'Nor: calls £2

Now I have a one card OESD but maybe more of my outs have been counterfited? My call then my fold to the 3-bet ok?

----- RIVER ----- [Td 9d 5s 8s][9h]
Chia Tam: bets £2
Guv'Nor: calls £2

Comments?

Steve Griff

The preflop raise is justified by the fact that Steve read redrobbo to be excesivvely loose and it was for isolation.

I thought that raising the flop may have been better as he can free up outs, has fold equity and may get to see the river cheaply, not forgetting that he may already be ahead of redrobbo.

I think the Turn was fine, as it was obvious that we were behind.

[waffle]

On the turn, your overcard outs are certainly not good. Hitting a Q on the river would be really sweet, as it puts a 1 card straight on board, but you'd have a 2 card straight that beats it.

So, take your 8 outs, discount them as the flush ones may be bad, and hitting a 7 may sometimes result in a split or a loss (if someone has QJ).

Now calculate the price/odds you are getting to see the river. I'd estimate that the turn's going to be capped 50% of the time or so, which will hurt your odds as you'll be putting in 3 more bets (the pot will be slightly larger, but your odds will still be worse.)

Now tell us, was your turn fold OK?

[Guy McSucker]

Preflop raise is perfect.

On the flop, you have two overcards and a gutshot draw. That's a decent hand. Don't even think of folding.

I think raising here is good: try to thin the field to make it more likely you win if you hit, or even win unimproved - an ace might fold. Since in this hand the flop bettor folded to the single raise, it's even more enticing to make the raise: you might win it right there.

On the turn you're getting 8-1 on the original bet and then 13-2 when it gets back to you. If it's capped behind that will be 15-3 or 5-1 odds to draw to your straight. Your outs are tainted for sure and I think it's getting to be close between calling and raising. I like our implied odds when a Q falls (gotta love that K in your hand!). On the other hand all that raising might indicate that someone already has the straight. It's close but I think I prefer to see the river here.

Fold unimproved on the river, obviously. If a J or K falls, you're in a tough spot with all that dough in the pot. The usual line is to pay off one bet.

Guy.

[jba]

Hi Steve -

this is a Very Bad Fold on the turn.

preflop is fine.

The flop is definitely not a "loose" call, you have overcards and a gutshot in a good size pot. A raise should be considered, it will be a lot easier to win this pot with a pair of kings or jacks headsup than it will be four handed.

now chai tam c/r you, what does that mean? Well it often means a strong hand like two pair but against a strong player it will often just be s split pair of 9s or Ts. good job just calling there.

when it comes back to you on the turn you are getting decent odds and there's just no way you can fold there. you have 8 outs to a straight. The diamonds need to be discounted and the spades to a lesser degree, but even fully discounted to 4 outs (which is wrong -- they dont both have separate flush draws) you need to call here. While true that a 7 often results in a chop, the high implied odds of the Q (you will get action from another J) make up for it. gotta call dude.

edit: took out miscalculated odds .... can't read that board

It is 13 : 2 on the turn, Which is 6.5 : 1. Hero has 8 outs maximum, his implied odds when a 7 fall are 7.5:1 and this is only when he doesn't lose to the flush or a better straight. His implied odds are only big when a Q that doesn't complete a flush falls.

If it gets capped, which it did, that is only 5 : 1 which is barely enough to call with 8 clean outs.

[Guy McSucker]

[ QUOTE ]

this is a Very Bad Fold on the turn


[/ QUOTE ]

No way.

6.5-1 for a straight draw is okay; not all outs are clean though and it may get capped. It's close. I think it's a call, but folding is far from horrific.

Guy.

[jba]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

this is a Very Bad Fold on the turn


[/ QUOTE ]

No way.

6.5-1 for a straight draw is okay; not all outs are clean though and it may get capped. It's close. I think it's a call, but folding is far from horrific.

Guy.

[/ QUOTE ]

i definitely misread the action and agree that it is close. the trickiness of the Q makes me want to call this.