Why should i raise?

Pharity · #1 11-10-2005, 12:42 PM

Ok i was really lost on this one. I want you to explain why i should raise.

UTG+2 is 18/8/3, but i don't think he is very skilled
CO is 41/8/0.9

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) internettexasholdem.com

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
2 folds, UTG+2 raises, 1 fold, MP2 calls, 1 fold, CO calls, Hero 3-bets, 2 folds, UTG+2 caps, MP2 folds, CO calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (15.33 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG+2 bets, CO calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (9.16 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG+2 bets, CO calls, Hero calls.

River: (12.16 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG+2 bets, CO calls, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 15.16 BB

Ok my thinking was this: I am probably WA/WB against UTG+2, most likely behind though. The pot is huge so i've got good effective odds to see the showdown if the board and further actions are OK. I cannot protect my hand against CO unless i am WB UTG+2. If i raise the flop i will only fold something like JJ or TT for UTG+2 and it will not protect against CO. Only when i am WB UTG+2 and he reraises my flop raise, CO might muck his hand. Its all about relative position. And since a raise is not for value, not for protection, i cannot fold a better hand and i dont need to fold a worse hand for UTG+2, and i probably can't fold a worse hand for CO if im not already dead, then why should i raise?

Please enlighten me! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

ackid · #2 11-10-2005, 12:52 PM

How about raising turn and going for a free showdown.

krimson · #3 11-10-2005, 01:00 PM

I think this is fine, I think you're behind the better part of UTG+2's range, especially after he continues to bet on the turn, but calling the hand down with the CO in the middle gives you some overlay for when you're ahead of an aggressively played AK or TT/JJ. You essentially have 0 options to protect your hand against CO, so just string him along for the ride.

A free showdown play is completely useless, you're only getting worse hands to fold, and opening yourself up to a 3-bet by AA/KK.

flopmonster · #4 11-10-2005, 01:40 PM

pharity i really like your line here altho it looks unaggressive and mayb weak but it seems to make the most sense here

ghostface · #5 11-10-2005, 01:55 PM

Anyone raise the river?

flopmonster · #6 11-10-2005, 02:05 PM

I wouldnt

TomBrooks · #7 11-10-2005, 05:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think this is fine

[/ QUOTE ]

The Goober · #8 11-10-2005, 06:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
A free showdown play is completely useless, you're only getting worse hands to fold, and opening yourself up to a 3-bet by AA/KK.

[/ QUOTE ]

There are situations where a free showdown play wins you more bets. For example, if CO has a flush draw or if UTG+2 has AK and was planning to give up and C/F the river.

That being said, I still like the OP's line. I think the threat of a 3-bet is enough that I wouldn't make the free showdown play.

hicherbie · #9 11-10-2005, 06:12 PM

UTG might 3-bet forcing the CO to drop, or face a ton of calling on the next two streets. Id raise on the flop. if he doesnt drop out i passive it up like you did.