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  #1  
Old 12-27-2005, 12:14 PM
arod15 arod15 is offline
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Default 2-5 NL semi-deep stacks. how much to turn bet if at all......

2-5 NL Effective Stacks 1200

Hero Delt 10 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 10 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] in the BB (my image is supertight)

MP opens to 25 (laggy)

CO cold calls Hero Calls (super donk)

Flop K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 10 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] with a flush draw (Pot 77)

Hero checks
MP checks

CO bets 100$

Hero Calls MP Calls

Turn is 10 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (pot 375)

Hero checks
MP bets 200
CO cold calls 200$

Total Pot is now 775$

Whats my line? Raise? If so how much? or should I just call and let action develop on the river?

Thanks in Advance
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  #2  
Old 12-27-2005, 12:26 PM
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Default Re: 2-5 NL semi-deep stacks. how much to turn bet if at all......

well i wich i knew you relative stack sizes, but given that your out of position you need to take control of the hand now. You cant smoothcall here and try CR the flop. Both of these players have shown action so take advantage of it. I would personally raise to 500 to keep them drawing too their flush draws. Hopefully one has kk to play back at you
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  #3  
Old 12-27-2005, 12:30 PM
arod15 arod15 is offline
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Default Re: 2-5 NL semi-deep stacks. how much to turn bet if at all......

[ QUOTE ]
well i wich i knew you relative stack sizes, but given that your out of position you need to take control of the hand now. You cant smoothcall here and try CR the flop. Both of these players have shown action so take advantage of it. I would personally raise to 500 to keep them drawing too their flush draws. Hopefully one has kk to play back at you

[/ QUOTE ]

FYI I put effective stacks 1200

They both had around that amount 1200-1250
I had a little more than 1400 behind.
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  #4  
Old 12-27-2005, 12:45 PM
AdamBragar AdamBragar is offline
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Default Re: 2-5 NL semi-deep stacks. how much to turn bet if at all......

This flop is so draw heavy, I don't understand not checkraising the flop. Let's say you don't hit a 10 on the turn but rather any ace, 9 or club hits and you start getting a lot of action, what then?

Anyway, a pretty good turn card comes...

It's pretty hard to mess up this hand. I see two ways to play this. If you think that the two players are drawing and you won't get paid off unless they hit, I'd reraise the turn, but not too big. Maybe make it 500.

If you think one of them might have a legit hand, I'd call the turn and bet maybe 750 on the river.

There is no way I'm just calling the turn and checking the river because I don't want the river checked through. With this big a hand you're going to have to control the action at some point.

Oh yeah, since this seems to be live, i'd checkraise. If it were online, I'd probably call and fire on the river.
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  #5  
Old 12-27-2005, 12:49 PM
Leptyne Leptyne is offline
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Default Re: 2-5 NL semi-deep stacks. how much to turn bet if at all......

I think you step in here with a minraise. Yes, minraise. Adds confusion, begs for another re-raise. If no re-raise and both are on board then you have a pot of ~$1600 and everyone is left with effective stacks of ~$700. Push the river. Who's getting away?
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  #6  
Old 12-27-2005, 12:57 PM
arod15 arod15 is offline
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Default Re: 2-5 NL semi-deep stacks. how much to turn bet if at all......

[ QUOTE ]
This flop is so draw heavy, I don't understand not checkraising the flop. Let's say you don't hit a 10 on the turn but rather any ace, 9 or club hits and you start getting a lot of action, what then?

Anyway, a pretty good turn card comes...

It's pretty hard to mess up this hand. I see two ways to play this. If you think that the two players are drawing and you won't get paid off unless they hit, I'd reraise the turn, but not too big. Maybe make it 500.

If you think one of them might have a legit hand, I'd call the turn and bet maybe 750 on the river.

There is no way I'm just calling the turn and checking the river because I don't want the river checked through. With this big a hand you're going to have to control the action at some point.

Oh yeah, since this seems to be live, i'd checkraise. If it were online, I'd probably call and fire on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

As for not not check-raising the flop, I agree with you. I usually raise there 9 out of 10 times. I felt like gambling a bit there as doing so in my mind improve my chances of stacking them both. I felt if a blank falls on the turn I will make a ton as both players were not afraid to fire and aggressive. Also, I wanted an overcall there and by raising I feel like MP folds almost always in that spot. I feel as long as your capable of getting away from your set to crazy action, gambling there by just colding calling is not horrible but long term +EV. But again thats just my instinct. Im not quite sure how the math works out.
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  #7  
Old 12-27-2005, 01:10 PM
AdamBragar AdamBragar is offline
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Default Re: 2-5 NL semi-deep stacks. how much to turn bet if at all......

I agree that you don't always want to raise a set with a draw on the board, just not in a position like this. This is a multiway pot with multiple draws (possible straight and club draws) that are likely. Also, I'd raise with a lot of draws here. I think if you raise the flop, you will still get called by a draw and probably by AK.
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  #8  
Old 12-27-2005, 01:18 PM
TheGrifter TheGrifter is offline
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Default Re: 2-5 NL semi-deep stacks. how much to turn bet if at all......

Raise the flop!
Raise the turn, with this line raise to about $600 total on the turn.
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  #9  
Old 12-27-2005, 01:18 PM
Maulik Maulik is offline
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Default Re: 2-5 NL semi-deep stacks. how much to turn bet if at all......

lead the flop.

push the river... you missed your clubs, you've been calling.
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  #10  
Old 12-27-2005, 01:57 PM
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Default Re: 2-5 NL semi-deep stacks. how much to turn bet if at all......

Check/calling this flop against two opponents was a big gamble. There are a lot of cards out there that will make you throw up. As played, I probably raise the turn to $400. That gives everybody in the hand the proper odds to call. You will probably get a push from a K-K and maybe even from Ac-Xc.

That was a hell of a turn card for you. Hopefully you stacked them both.
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