$2/$5 PL 63s turns flush

[swolfe]

The stacks are deep and usually there's a $10-$20 straddle, so mostly it plays like a bigger game. In this particular hand, there is no straddle...which means that the limpers could have anything. With the stacks on the table, most of the players would limp with any two for $5.

I have around $1,400 and everyone in the hand has me covered.

3 limpers, SB completes, I check in the BB with 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].

flop $25: T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

SB leads for $20, I think about raising, but decide to call, very good player raises to $100, folds back to SB who deliberates, then calls, i call.

Villain's raise could be a lot of things, but it's generally two-pair or better or the nut draw. SB usually pays off like a slot machine, btw...I don't see a fold here after he calls, what do you think?

turn $325: A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

SB checks, i bet $200, good player calls (he must have a set or flush), SB folds

river $725: blank

i check, Villain bets $300, i call

[Ghazban]

Do you think he's value betting a worse hand on the end? I don't see any way you're ahead here as you've pretty much announced you have a flush on the turn. The only thing you beat on the river is a pure bluff and I don't see any hand he could be bluffing with that gets that far.

[swolfe]

[ QUOTE ]
Do you think he's value betting a worse hand on the end? I don't see any way you're ahead here as you've pretty much announced you have a flush on the turn. The only thing you beat on the river is a pure bluff and I don't see any hand he could be bluffing with that gets that far.

[/ QUOTE ]

you don't think he makes that bet with 88? while i think he could think that i have the flush, i think my hand range for him is a little wider and would include AT or the like. or maybe K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]T. i think the flop/turn action could have gone the same if i held those hands.

[Ghazban]

Its possible he has something you're beating but I think he's checking behind most of those hands as you probably can't call a bet without a flush. Am I way off here? Live, you can often get a great feel for what they've got and what they'll pay off with that isn't easy to explain or quantify. I'm just saying that, based on the action alone, I don't know if he can value bet the river last to act without a flush as you probably can't call without one and he has to worry about a checkraise (you're both still pretty deep). I just feel like a showdownable hand takes the free showdown here while bluffs and better flushes bet. I don't see what a good player raises the flop with and calls the turn with that will bluff at this river (K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Tx, maybe? Seems pretty thin....)

[swolfe]

[ QUOTE ]
Its possible he has something you're beating but I think he's checking behind most of those hands as you probably can't call a bet without a flush. Am I way off here? Live, you can often get a great feel for what they've got and what they'll pay off with that isn't easy to explain or quantify. I'm just saying that, based on the action alone, I don't know if he can value bet the river last to act without a flush as you probably can't call without one and he has to worry about a checkraise (you're both still pretty deep). I just feel like a showdownable hand takes the free showdown here while bluffs and better flushes bet. I don't see what a good player raises the flop with and calls the turn with that will bluff at this river (K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Tx, maybe? Seems pretty thin....)

[/ QUOTE ]

so you're thinking check/fold the river against this player?

how about the flop/turn action? do you fold to the flop raise?

how about the turn lead? i know it says, "i have a flush", but the pot was big enough for me to want to take down and i didn't really feel comfortable check-raising.

[swolfe]

damn you, people! look at my hands!

[sting]

Based on your reads and his line, you have to call the river bet and (depending on how much you trust your read) I'd consider a raise.

Your read tells you that this good player's raise into two players on the flop means set, 2 pair or nut draw. Since the A of spade hit the turn, you know that the nut draw is off limits and you are ahead of his remaining likely holdings.

His line screams set to me. It's how I'd have played it. He raised the flop. Slowed down on the turn by calling your bet into the 3rd spade. And value bet your weak looking river check. He has to think that a set is good after your check and, given your line, two pair (AT?) looks very possible.

Hope you get some more replies. Im interested in others' thoughts. I think small flushes are among the hardest hands to play against good opponents.

[BobboFitos]

flop play is sketch


edit:
[ QUOTE ]
Villain's raise could be a lot of things, but it's generally two-pair or better or the nut draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats why. You're given bad odds, could be facing a better draw, and this player is pretty good so you prolly wont be paid off. you'll see one card OOP. As is, you hit your card, (best card, too, since it eliminates NFD) and you still had to play passively, not getting paid off to the full extent. Therefore, this is a flop fold. The original call is good and all, esp. because villain you says pays off like a slot machine.

[jkkkk]

I like your play here, maybe bet more on the turn, if good player does have a set here I want to charge him the full price.

[Ghazban]

I don't know about check/fold on the river but I don't know what else to say not having been there. In the moment, I'd go with my gut and live with the results. I'm not thrilled about the flop call because you're stuck in the middle and can't be sure of what you want to hit. As it was, you got the card that guaranteed the good player wasn't on the nut draw and still found yourself in a tough position. Given that you got to the turn, I agree wholeheartedly with your lead and I expect the good player to go away most of the time. When he doesn't, I expect he has a better flush or a set and I expect the set to check behind on the end, assuming he also views you as a good player and not a donk. If he thinks you are a donk, he can value bet a wider range.