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  #1  
Old 11-24-2005, 02:45 AM
MicroBob MicroBob is offline
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Default People who think online is rigged...

I wonder what Dr. Al (or other experts) think about those who claim that online-poker is (or might be) rigged??


I was just reading through another one of the 'online-poker sites have every incentive to set it up so that fish win more often' type threads in the internet-forum.


Naturally...these threads come up all the time. and while I don't think Dr. Al plays much online, I have to think that he has heard this conversation come up at the live-tables a few times (I know I have...and I don't play very much live).


Personally, I think there's just a lot of denial out there by those who don't want to believe that they are actually potentially not such a great player.
They'll admit it out loud..."Oh...I know I'm not like a Phil Ivey or anything" but they could add, "but I know I'm better than most (or all) of my opponents."
Naturally, if they didn't think their way was the best way to play poker, they wouldn't be playing that way in the first place.


Anyway, some guy who they perceive to be a worse player than them catches a suck-out...or they lose with KK to AA...or whatever... and they can't understand how it has happened as many times as it has.
Thus, they start to believe that the cards aren't really 'right' on a certain site (or whatever).


I find the psychology of this fascinating.


When I was in Vegas in July I was at a table where a dealer was saying that he's been in poker for 30 years...but could tell right-away in his first time playing online that the cards ran in different patterns and clearly weren't the same as a live deck.

How people can think they can identify certain patterns of cards is beyond me (after a few hands...or a few thousand hands).


On the PPM cruise there was lots of talk all over the place about how the cards on such-and-such site weren't really right...but on some other site they seemed to be pretty legit. etc etc.

I had one guy tell me that I'm just the guy the site wants to keep around. Because I'm a high-volume, full-time player and I contribute more rake than the part-time players.
I had another guy tell me that I better watch out because the site doesn't want the full-timers to win because they take the money from the fish (thus decreasing the number of players on the site).

It seems very much like these people are just inventing their own logic as they go along instead of using common-sense.


I think it's a cop-out to just say that all these people are 'stupid'.
They're clearly are not THAT stupid.
Many are college-educated...have jobs...even as doctors, lawyers, psychologists, whatever.

But on this particular issue I think they are painfully ignorant and in some weird state of denial....and as I said before I think it's kind of fascinating.
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  #2  
Old 11-24-2005, 02:54 AM
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Default Re: People who think online is rigged...

i myself have been someone who wonders about certain sites. Seems like new players get a rush but could just be coincidence. Also I find some of the cards on some sites to be different than others. For instance, paradise poker, for some reason or another seems to get more paired flops than any other sites i have been on.
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  #3  
Old 11-24-2005, 04:19 AM
MicroBob MicroBob is offline
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Default Re: People who think online is rigged...

I am assuming you are not kidding.
If true, then you are very obviously exactly the type of person I am talking about.


To one of my previous questions; How on earth do you think you can detect 'more paired-flops' or 'more bad-beats' on one site or another and why would you think that your very small sample means anything?

Do you realize that there is someone else out there who thinks exactly the opposite of you?
They might say, "I see more paired-flops on Pokerstars than anywhere else. I barely even see any paired-flops on paradise."
Somebody else says, "Oh yeah?!!?!? Have you noticed the number of 3-flush flops on party??? It's incredible!!!"
and then some other guy, "and what's really werid is that on UB you always get beaten by a miracle-card on the turn. On every other site you always get beaten on the river."


It's just one ridiculous observation after another.
And this is how many non-stop conversations went on and on and on that I overheard on the PPM cruise.

And it just boggles my mind that people would think this way and not realize that they are just relating their own little mini-biases (which are probably not too accurate to begin with because it's mostly based on an ultra-selective memory).


It's all just a situation of your mind playing some tricks on you.
and I bet that if you had pokertracker you would find that you have seen just as many paired-flops on paradise as on any other site.


I'm just curious how anyone can deceive themselves into thinking they can detect something like this.
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Old 11-24-2005, 05:36 AM
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Default self serving bias.

look it up on wikipedia. The phenomenon is found everywhere. I didn't fail the test....the test was hard. However, when they ace it, it was through their hard work and determination.
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Old 11-24-2005, 06:18 AM
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Default Re: People who think online is rigged...

i do notice i always start good with a new game, ring, sng, etc. it's just strange, that's all. like i'm being lured in.
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  #6  
Old 11-24-2005, 08:56 AM
SNOWBALL138 SNOWBALL138 is offline
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Default Re: People who think online is rigged...

Intelligent people in society think differently than intelligent poker players. People don't understand randomness or expectation because they don't use these concepts in their workplace or everyday decisions.
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Old 11-24-2005, 09:03 AM
SNOWBALL138 SNOWBALL138 is offline
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Default Re: People who think online is rigged...

[ QUOTE ]
I think it's a cop-out to just say that all these people are 'stupid'.
They're clearly are not THAT stupid.
Many are college-educated...have jobs...even as doctors, lawyers, psychologists, whatever.


[/ QUOTE ]

Part of whats happening is that people experience gambling decisions emotionally, and are confused by the meaning of their results, as well as the game itself. Instead of thinking "I have no idea whats going on" they pretend that they understand whats going on. They make up stories that can help them to explain events that are confusing, and emotionally intense (sometimes traumatic). Its a little more complicated than Voltaire's "god shaped void", but the principle is somewhat similar.

Also, sometimes people just want something to talk about. People will spit out any variety of canard to make conversations. Monkey see monkey do. Sometimes the smart monkeys take cues from the dumber monkeys, because its no big deal if they're wrong. People don't go into gambling environments to exchange meaningful ideas.
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  #8  
Old 11-24-2005, 09:55 AM
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Default Re: People who think online is rigged...

Everyone that truly thinks online poker is rigged, should regularly read this blog.
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  #9  
Old 11-24-2005, 10:17 AM
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Default Re: People who think online is rigged...

I am not kidding. I have seen more paired flops on paradise poker than on any other sites. Does this make me a bad player or a loser?? I don't think so. I am simply stating what I have observed so far. Mabye after I see more hands my observations will change. I am not saying online poker is rigged.
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  #10  
Old 11-24-2005, 10:25 AM
mattw mattw is offline
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Default Re: People who think online is rigged...

[ QUOTE ]
I am not kidding. I have seen more paired flops on paradise poker than on any other sites. Does this make me a bad player or a loser?? I don't think so. I am simply stating what I have observed so far. Mabye after I see more hands my observations will change. I am not saying online poker is rigged.

[/ QUOTE ]

two points: do you have 500k hands in PT to back up your observation? human memory is selective.

i understand mbob's inability to understand it. i hope they never stop playing.
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