A K. Man, did I screw this up!

[kongo_totte]

Party NL$50 Full ring. $1 BB. Both me and Villain(UTG) have about $80. No reads, except, the table is fairly loose. Even looser than Party usually is. I'm dealt As Kc

Villain makes it $2 UTG.
2 call
I make it $7 from SB and all call (hmmm). 4 to the flop

Flop ($28): 3d Ks 6h

I bet $20
Villain re-raises $40
2 folds.
I trow up and call

Turn ($108)

I check
Villain puts me all in for $40 more. I fold and slap myself in the face.

How bad is my flop call?

[TheWorstPlayer]

You flop call is terrible if you are going to fold on a blank turn. Obviously, you have to decide on the flop whether or not you have the best hand. Absent any reads, I doubt TPTK is good against a raise. Drop it.

[Tilt]

Im not sure your call is all that bad. Alot of players would test a raise here with KQ, QQ, JJ. Its the turn check I dont like. You have to throw out another bet there. Then if you are raised youll know you are beat. If you are not going to bet again then obviously calling the flop raise is not a good idea.

Get some ice for your face and try and keep your lunch down. Good luck.

[kongo_totte]

Well, although I regret my flop call, my thought process when I played were, that he either has A A or a set, which means trouble or he´s got something like KQ, QQ, JJ or he has got A K, which was really his most likely holding from my point of view. I figured a call would make anything but A A or a set as scared of me as I was of them. To be honest, I knew I wasn't going to put more than $10-$20 more into that pot. Really, I was naive enough to hope for a check down from both. Concerning betting out on the turn, I have nothing to bet with. My $40 would be 1/3 of the pot, and anything lower than that would tell him exactly how weak I was.

[Tilt]

[ QUOTE ]
Concerning betting out on the turn, I have nothing to bet with. My $40 would be 1/3 of the pot, and anything lower than that would tell him exactly how weak I was.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ahhh good point. Wasnt reading carefully. Yes then I would either fold to the flop raise or push it all in. Honestly I think id push. I mean, there really is a decent chance you are ahead isnt there?

[soah]

What range of hands do players typically raise with UTG at loose full ring Party tables? I think that makes a lot of difference as to how to play the rest of the hand. In 6-max I'd fold AK on the board approximately never. Two pair looks remote, sets seem unlikely (only two kings left in the deck, and would he actually raise 66 or 33??) The pot is already big and the only hand he is likely to show up with that beats you is AA. Perhaps in full ring the players are passive enough that you can be sure that you're beaten, but if there's any chance my opponent could have KQ, KJ, JJ, etc, then I can't fold.

And fwiw, I rarely reraise from the blinds with AK. The odds of taking down the pot right there are near zero vs party players and it's just too easy to misplay out of position when you miss the flop, either by folding the best hand or spewing chips without it. If you give the UTG raiser enough respect that you lay down TPTK on such a ragged flop when he shows aggression, then reraising is definintely *soah corrects typo for Garland... and then realizes it is still spelled wrong and decides to leave it alone* overplaying your AK, and even calling could be debatable. (This may be an overly dramatic conclusion to reach, but I'm hoping to illustrate a point.)

[kongo_totte]

Concerning re-raising A K PF. Is a $1 raise when the BB is $1 even considered a raise? And hands calling $2 are the exact same hands that would be calling $1, namely any 2 cards. I had this discussion on the forum a couple of weeks ago, and with my aggressive style of play, I want to be able to stab at missed flops with A K. As PF-raiser, I consider it a +EV move. Altough, I can't do that with 4-5 players in the pot. My re-raise was so I would thin out the field and steal the rag flop w/ 1-2 callers. Makes sense? However, that failed, luckily (?) I hit the flop. It should be noted that I would not re-raise if the raise before me was a real raise (4-6XBB) Nowadays, I sometimes fold AK if there is a real raise and 2-3 callers, and sometimes call.

FWIW, the guy told me he had A A, so I guess the lay down was good. However, it should have come one street before IMO.

[soah]

It didn't register to me that the raise was only a minraise. However, I still believe that with this many players in the pot the odds that you can win the pot without catching a pair are not very good, and these players will still pay you off well when you hit regardless of any (lack of?) preflop action. I conceed the point that when the raise is only a minraise the decision is much closer. Even in limped pots though I will check AK in the bb at tables where people will call down with absolutely anything. But I'll defer to your judgement on whether the conditions at your particular table warranted reraising. That wasn't really the reason I replied though. The more important factor is if the UTG player could be likely to play hands like KQ, KJ, QQ, or worse in the manner described in your post. If there's a chance that he would, then the pot is too big now for you to fold, even if you'll lose much of the time. Just from the information provided in your post, we can't answer that question.

[kongo_totte]

Well, I just had a gut feeling when he re-raised me on the flop that I was up against A A. The min.raise UTG alarmed me, but then the flat call to my re-raise calmed me down again. I'm most mad at myself for calling the flop when all I'm thinking is A A, A A, A A.