Am I a donkey?

[PFrese]

Thanks for all the great feedback everyone. At least I take a little solice in knowing that others would have done the same thing.

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Why the minireraise? You are pot committed with any reraise, so why not just push? You certainly don't mind if villain folds.

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Good question. I really dont have a good answer. Other than at the time, I was thinking "I need to define my hand. If he pushes to my rereraise, then he definitely has AA or KK" And then I proceeeded to ignore the information that I paid 6,000 for! BLEH!

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I think you would be a donk if you didn't go bust on this hand. You can't just fold QQ to a reraise.

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Question - even to a rerereraise? Would you still not lay it down?

[betgo]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for all the great feedback everyone. At least I take a little solice in knowing that others would have done the same thing.

[ QUOTE ]
Why the minireraise? You are pot committed with any reraise, so why not just push? You certainly don't mind if villain folds.

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Good question. I really dont have a good answer. Other than at the time, I was thinking "I need to define my hand. If he pushes to my rereraise, then he definitely has AA or KK" And then I proceeeded to ignore the information that I paid 6,000 for! BLEH!

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I think you would be a donk if you didn't go bust on this hand. You can't just fold QQ to a reraise.

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Question - even to a rerereraise? Would you still not lay it down?

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You have too much in to fold to villain's 4th raise. He could have AK and you could make a set if you are dominated. That is why you might as well just push.

It's highly unlikely villian is making a play here - he'd be making a move against a stack that could hurt him, that has already shown strength and interest in this pot, and shown it UTG. I interpret his raise as saying: "if you and I are going to play a big pot we're making that decision now - i figure you have a hand so let's go - if you were just tramping around w/ a mid pair or suited connectors I'm not letting you get a cheap shot at breaking me 'cause I got a hand that I'm going to have a hard time getting away from". From his perspective a 3x raise here is problematic -you call and push the non-AK flop and then what? He gets the chance to be the donkey. I'm putting him on AA or KK - maybe QQ/JJ that he intends to fold to a push but I would have played that as a call and hoped I could break your AA/KK when my set hits - unlikely he has AK which I would either call or 3x reraise.

FWIW - if you put him on AA/KK/AK I don't think the chip EV is any better calling than pushing (I did quick manual math so I could very well be wrong) - you just increase the % of time you stay alive w/ a smaller stack versus busting out (which w/ your stack size isn't necessarily bad).

If the player is any good at all you have to think he can make the reraise w/ TT,JJ,AK some will do it w/ medium pairs such as 77-JJ to get information. Barring no reads I think your equity is good enough against JJ+,AK.

[PuertoKid]

It is really important to have been watching the players. You get a very wide range of play in these 180 person tourneys. In some cases it is correct to get it all in with your QQ in this situation and, in other cases, it is correct to fold.

Now, my experience in these tourneys is , AK is more likely to call or push than reraise like this guy did. Pairs smaller than J's usually fold, call, or push. In general, I think the reraise here is spells trouble and you do better in the long run by folding unless you have a read that the person will make this move with a significanlty wider range of hands than AA, KK, and possibly AK.

If your stack were smaller, of course you need to get all in. But your stack is big enough that folding here leaves you in good shape.

So, in summary, unless you have reads that tell you otherwise, I think folding here has the best long term result for you against the typical opponents at the 180 sng tournaments.

[FUpaymee]

My general rule of thumb with QQ is that if I get re-raised preflop, I will simply call (unless it's a push, then I gotta think about that one a bit more). It depends on what reads I have on villain.

But with absolutely zero reads on villain and with EP, I usually just call the re-raise and hope for a good flop. If an A or K comes down, I check and I'm pretty quick to fold to a big bet. If it's lower cards, I will make a large bet and see what happens from there.

By simply calling the re-raise preflop, it gives me an opportunity to gain a little more information about villain's hand when the flop comes down, and I might avoid busting out to AA or KK or even AK. And like someone else already said, you're NOT going to force most players off AK by pushing pre-flop. Which is another reason it's a good idea to see the flop before making any major moves.

But no one can call you a donk for getting busted with QQ against AA late in the tourney like that.

Pocket queens are a very tricky hand. I like your take on them, that's how I play them. But normally I like to raise even when I see an overcard on the flop to see how the other guy acts. If he's weak, I'll push all in dark before the turn cards to scare the sh%t out of him.

[PFrese]

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My general rule of thumb with QQ is that if I get re-raised preflop, I will simply call (unless it's a push, then I gotta think about that one a bit more). It depends on what reads I have on villain.

But with absolutely zero reads on villain and with EP, I usually just call the re-raise and hope for a good flop. If an A or K comes down, I check and I'm pretty quick to fold to a big bet. If it's lower cards, I will make a large bet and see what happens from there.

By simply calling the re-raise preflop, it gives me an opportunity to gain a little more information about villain's hand when the flop comes down, and I might avoid busting out to AA or KK or even AK. And like someone else already said, you're NOT going to force most players off AK by pushing pre-flop. Which is another reason it's a good idea to see the flop before making any major moves.


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Precisely. This is exactly how I was thinking I should have played it.

Thanks again all!