Yes, I limped UTG with 10 BBs

[Jason Strasser]

If you are saying there are times when limping is better than AI I disagree.

[ QUOTE ]
It seems to me that there are certain hands, most notably low pairs, that will not call an all-in, but will give you action if you limp or raise a smaller amount. With a relatively short stack, you probably should welcome action in a favorable situation, rather than simply trying to maximize your chance of winning the blinds.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a benefit to limping but its just a very rare occurance. What about when you limp, everyone gets spooked out and the J2o outflops you from the big blind? I guess if you have some extreme situation with a tilty player or a player who will knee-jerk push if anyone limps with anything, then fine. But any situation where limping is better has to be an extreme.

You also have to keep in mind that there are pairs lower than 88 that will call this all in some of the time and hands like JTs and up that will push if you limp and will not call an all in. You also may get tight players folding 99 or TT especially if they act with a bunch of people behind them.

So... In essense I really disagree that there is ever a reasonable (read: non extreme) reason to limp over pushing.

-Jason

[PFrese]

Virtually same exact scenario happened to me last night. Coincidentally, I had read this thread yesterday afternoon. Circustances only slightly different -

Blinds and Antes - 250/500 +50ante
20 left, money starts at 18
FullTilt $75, 7K Guarantee
I have 3500 and am in 18th place

I had 77 UTG+1. UTG folds

I after reading this post, push.

Everyone folds to the tourney chip leader (27,000), he calls with AJ. Spiked an Ace, little bot says thanks for playing. Bubble boy +1!

The table was playing very tight, and I had been stealing quite a bit just to stay alive. I think my only other choice was to fold.

Question - Given that I was 2 off the money, is this still a push, or is it a fold?

[EverettKings]

[ QUOTE ]
You forgot to multiply -4581 by .35.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, you did. It works out to like +800 chips for 22. You can fiddle with the ranges to make them closer, but pushing 22 here clearly is valid then.

Also, a number of hands have comparable equities to 22, including ALL suited broadways, Q9s, obv pairs between 22 and 88, etc.

So your push range should be pretty wide here eh?

Everett

[ QUOTE ]
Question - Given that I was 2 off the money, is this still a push, or is it a fold?

[/ QUOTE ]

Even more reason to push if you ask me. Being so close to the bubble the smaller stacks will be folding a lot more than normal. A lot of them will now be folding pairs they might otherwise have made a stand with. A big stack may be more likely to look you up (as they did in this case), but this is ofset by the above and the complete double up you get if you beat them.

[tshak]

No way 22 holds up as well. More higher pairs to call you, and big stack gamblers with hands like KQs, QJs, and JTs are a favorite preflop (which is not the case against 88).

[dmoney]

I actually like this play. The way I see it is….

So you’ve said you are probably calling unless a big stack makes a big raise. Id say make ur stand here. So with that said.

1) By limping you can induce a short stack with a lower pocket pair to push.
2) You can get someone with a bigger stack to attempt a steal cause they don’t think you’ve got a hand(short stacks NEVER limp UTG) haha [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] So he could try to Steal with Ax. Which would make u a nice favourite. Its possible someone that tries to steal and makes a big raise will knock other big stacks off their hands like A,J, KQ. KJ. Etc. so they will probably be folding hands that would have helped your opponent.
3) it is possible you are up against a bigger pair further down the line but Id say you still
have to play it. Go for the Limp Raise all in.


That’s what I think but im a moron so :P

[ QUOTE ]

Eh? Guess 22's not as equal to 88 as i thought.

[/ QUOTE ]

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 50.3340 % 49.39% 00.95% { 22 }
Hand 2: 49.6660 % 48.72% 00.95% { random }


equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 69.1630 % 68.72% 00.45% { 88 }
Hand 2: 30.8370 % 30.39% 00.45% { random }

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 52.4759 % 52.28% 00.20% { 88 }
Hand 2: 47.5241 % 47.33% 00.20% { AKs }

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 50.1067 % 49.78% 00.32% { 22 }
Hand 2: 49.8933 % 49.57% 00.32% { AKs }

22 sucks.

[Exitonly]

yea yea, i forgot to "multiply"..

so 22 is pretty damn equal to 88.

Good, thats what i thought in the first place.