The reverse 10 BB rule

[EverettKings]

So it folds to you on the button, and you get a decent stealing hand like A8o. Buuuuuuuuuut the blinds both have about 10 BBs, meaning if you open for 3 BBs they will likely either fold or push.... in which case you probably dont quite have the odds to call. Or maybe you barely do. Here's an example.

There is an ante of 75. Pot is 2475 to start.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t1200 (9 handed) converter

UTG (t22840)
UTG+1 (t22690)
MP1 (t42836)
MP2 (t9220)
MP3 (t45130)
CO (t26379)
Hero (t36532)
SB (t13552)
BB (t13010)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">6 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t3000</font>


So as a corollary to the 10 BB rule you could just say "well, open all in or fold". Which is reasonable I guess, and may be right with A9s here. And some hands opening to 3x and calling a raise may be correct, and maybe this hand is one of them. But I'm not sure. So....

What hands do you just open push, what hands do you raise/fold to a push, and what do you raise/call a push with? What if they both have 9 BBs instead of 11? Stuff like that.

I'd just like some comments on the general topic. Hit me with your best thought.

Kings

[Exitonly]

yea.. that's pretty much the rule.. if your raise is going to commit you to call a push (either because you're short, or he is) then push instead.

[EverettKings]

[ QUOTE ]
yea.. that's pretty much the rule.. if your raise is going to commit you to call a push (either because you're short, or he is) then push instead.

[/ QUOTE ]

My question is more when you won't be committed to call a push. And open pushing A9 with 12 BBs seems marginal at best. Yet then again if you raise and fold to a push, you might as well have had 23o. But then folding seems weak for 3 handed with A9. Is there any merit in open limping in spots like this? Or is an open fold simply better?

[benneh]

Open fold?!

raise to 4000, easy call if they push. but they're folding 90% of the itme.

By raising to 4000, you're giving yourself better than 2 to 1 to call an all in which are the exact odds you need against this range of hands: 77+, AQo+, ATs+. Truth is the blinds probably have a wider range so you'll be getting more than your fair share of equity in this pot.

As for why I don't open push, I don't know. Just seems weird.

[EverettKings]

[ QUOTE ]
Open fold?!

raise to 4000, easy call if they push. they're folding 90% of the itme.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, I was speaking beyond this SPECIFIC hand. I agree that A9s here is enough to play like that. But with A7o? 44? K9o? What hand makes it marginal for you?

[LethalRose]

just push

[benneh]

I think I play those hands the same, though I might muck 4s to an all in (and I probably raise less with them to make them easier to muck).

With the odds you're going to get I probably do this with a wide range of hands knowing that the blinds will most likely fold anyway. I can't give an exact blue print of what hands I muck in the face of an all in, but I probably call with any hands that are at least 30% to win vs the range i put villain on in pokerstove.

[HoldingFolding]

Very player dependent, if I'm up against someone aggressive, who'll put me on a semi blind steal and come back over the top I'll go all in. If bb is tight then I'll raise 2.55 BB and fold to the all in.

[Exitonly]

[ QUOTE ]
My question is more when you won't be committed to call a push.

[/ QUOTE ]


It's the same thing... the 'rule' is if you have 10BB or less, or your only opponents only have 10BB or left, it's better to just push.

Unless i'm still missing something..