Having reread HEFAP....

[Tosh]

Just finished reading it again but I really have to ask about the suggested pre flop play contained in the first chapter. I don't remember the 8 group tables being so loose. E.g. 23s on the button, can that really be profitable? In general groups 7 and 8 seem to contain a lot of weak hands and I was just wondering if someone could clarify.

[Joe Tall]

There are a lot of junk hands in 7-8 but I'll play 23s on the button. Most of those I reserve for the SB and 1/2 bet completion.

Peace,
Joe Tall

[Styles]

I admit I seem to have real problems in iffy-spots on the button.

HPFAP p.32 says basically: If you are first in on the button any hand you would play is usually worth a raise. These would be any hand in Groups 1-7, maybe 8. But it also says IF you think you have a decent chance to steal the blinds.

I play that funky blind structure at 1/2 True and there is no decent chance the blinds will fold, so I'm not raising a Group 7 or 8 hand. In fact, in this spot, I usually fold 7-8.

I do play 7-8 according to p.38

"if you are on the button, alot of players are already in, and the pot is not raised, you acn call with many additional hands. This includes Group 8, and even hands as weak as Qxs"

I consider alot 6 limpers.

OTOH, I would raise Axo first-in which is Group 8 or worse, even. That's probably not good, but, it seems to work in that spot. Maybe this is just a quirk of the tables I play, but, the LooseGames section doesn't seem to advise this adjustment exactly [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[LetsRock]

I stay away from the group 7 and 8 hands most of the time. Maybe I'm just not good enough yet, but it's hard to see them as profitable most of the time. Once in a while, I will play a few of them on the button (not 23s) and I'll usually complete the SB with these hands. I'll get some of these hands and I'll go into the "everybody limp now" chant and all but one MP will fold, so I just muck it.

No worries.

[MaxPower]

Many of those weak hands can turn into excellent hands after the flop. Its worth playing them for one bet on the button against a large field. They won't hit the flop that often, but when they do you are in a position to collect some bets. You will also be able to call the flop with some unlikely draws or give yourself a free card that will win the pot.

In the actual book, I think they recommend playing group 8 hands under very limited conditions.