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  #11  
Old 10-23-2005, 07:09 PM
malorum malorum is offline
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Default Re: Where do numbers come from?

[ QUOTE ]
It is my understanding that the question you are asking is deep and unsolved to this day.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not sure what you mean by 'deep' or 'unsolved', but yes there exists a debate.
For origins of the debate see Plato's Meno and the dialogue between Socrates and the slave boy.
In terms of the current definitions, I'm a formalist, I don't think we have any real evidence to the contrary.
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  #12  
Old 10-24-2005, 05:03 AM
K-mac K-mac is offline
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Default Re: Where do numbers come from?

I now have some information regarding the origins of the debate, but where can i find info on the current debate?
Or more importantly what is a better guide for the current debate?

Thanks
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  #13  
Old 10-24-2005, 01:01 PM
Good Friar Good Friar is offline
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Default Re: Where do numbers come from?

Perhaps the best treatise on the subject is Frege's Grundlagen, which is a truly impressive work that addresses many different philosophies of mathematics. His basic approach, and one that is still fairly basic to our current use of number, etc, tries to reduce the idea of natural number to that of logic, that is, we know the difference between existence and non-existence, and hence the difference between 0 and 1. Likewise, we can differentiate two concepts/objects/ideas, by notice the existence of two non-equal things and so on. There are problems involving the Russell paradox in his formal approach, but you'd still probably find it at least a satisfying approach.
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  #14  
Old 10-24-2005, 02:15 PM
Trantor Trantor is offline
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Default Re: Where do numbers come from?

[ QUOTE ]
Along the same lines:

There are indigenous tribes in the rain forest who have no discernment between the colors yellow and green. Everything is in a stage of becoming the other, and they don't see it as a true difference in color, only difference in the stage of its life.

Numbers were necessary to make a logical order of things. Without numbers, could we have a functional society? I completely doubt it, because we would cease to be functional as a group. Even if there aren't named numbers, there is still a concept of them. When a tribe divides its kill, it separates it into what the group feels fair. There is a quantifiable fraction that everyone is entitled to. Whether it's a concept of this or is explicit, it exists.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is a tribe with a pefectly functional society in which the only number they have is "one". No two or any other so no "numbers" (plural)
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  #15  
Old 10-24-2005, 09:26 PM
alimomoney alimomoney is offline
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Default Re: Where do numbers come from?

Some cognitive development dudes say that humans have an inate mathematical sense that develops around ages 2-3. For example, small children quickly pick up on the concept of "more" and "less". As for the ideas of specific numbers, they had to develop when the concepts of some and many were not accurate enough for some task at hand.
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