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#1
12-10-2005, 06:27 PM
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Learning to think on the fly -- a test
I normally post on the high stakes board, but I read this board occasionally, and I had a hand that I thought would be useful for others to evaluate.
Beginning players tend to think too much about "default" lines, often at the expense of hand reading. This can lead to VERY suboptimal play. Give me your thoughts on how you would handle the following situation. Game is 10-20 NL, 4 handed. Villain in the BB has $2600. You have him covered. Preflop Folded to you in the SB. You make it $75 to go in the SB with K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Villain calls. Flop K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] How would you play the flop against the following players? What would you do if reraised? What is your plan if the turn is a brick? Assume in all cases that you have the image of an aggressive (but not crazy) player. Scenario 1 Villain is generally tight preflop. He tends to reach a "decision point" early in hands and does not fold a made hand very often on the turn or the river unless the board is very scary. He is generally sensitive to pot odds, etc. He is capable of bluffing and playing aggressively if he senses weakness. He is a winning player. Scenario 2 Villain is a weak, but not wild, player. He calls and folds too much on all streets, and does not raise frequently enough. He is not tricky. Scenario 3 Villain is a big LAG. He has more guts than judgment. He plays too many hands. He bluffs too often and in bad spots, but he is good at picking off bluffs by opponents. He is capable of folding if he feels he is beat, but he is also capable of betting/raising all-in with the nuts, air, or something in between. He can be tricky at times and is difficult to put on a hand. I will post the turn card later on and give everyone a chance to reevaluate. 
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#2
12-10-2005, 06:32 PM
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Re: Learning to think on the fly -- a test
I'm leading 2/3 of the pot in each of these situations because I'd do that heads up with ATC after a preflop raise so there's no reason for my to lay off when I actually hit.
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#4
12-10-2005, 07:11 PM
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Re: Learning to think on the fly -- a test
I think that a raise from each of these opponents will be likely to mean different things.
For opponent one, if we know that he is an aggressive thinking player than a raise does not necessarily mean we are beat. I think that if a tight player raises in a situation like this then he very well might be trying to do some sort of free card raise with a flush or straight draw. Also, if we always auto bet the flop after raising pre flop then he might just be trying to put a move on us. I think that many players with a hand like KK or 1010 would have re-raised us PF so I'm not all that worried about a set (wrong perhaps?) Against a player like this, I think a re-raise all in would be good to prevent him from getting a free turn. Like I said before, I think a raise by a thinking player in a situation like this is more likely to indicate some sort of draw rather than something like a set. Against the second player, a raise would scare me much more. Since he very rarely raises, a raise in this spot could very well indicate a set. On the other hand, he could easily have something like KQ or KJ and be making a "value bet" thinking we are on a blind steal. I think against him, I call and re-evaluate on the turn. If the turn bricks I say we make a reasonably sized "donk bet" (say 1/2 the pot) into the guy and see how he reacts. If he calls then I think my hand is best, but if he pushes I'd have to seriously consider folding. Against player number three, I think that he'll try to bluff his money off to me more often than not. I'll call the flop raise, call the turn bet and the inevitable river push. Thanks for posting this hand Rococo, I think that using default "lines" is a serious flaw in my game. Interested to hear your critiques of these plays.
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#5
12-10-2005, 07:45 PM
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Re: Learning to think on the fly -- a test
paging Rococo, paging Rococo.
Are we gonna discuss this, because I'm interested.
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#6
12-11-2005, 07:31 PM
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Re: Learning to think on the fly -- a test
[ QUOTE ]
For opponent one, if we know that he is an aggressive thinking player than a raise does not necessarily mean we are beat. I think that if a tight player raises in a situation like this then he very well might be trying to do some sort of free card raise with a flush or straight draw. Also, if we always auto bet the flop after raising pre flop then he might just be trying to put a move on us. I think that many players with a hand like KK or 1010 would have re-raised us PF so I'm not all that worried about a set (wrong perhaps?) Against a player like this, I think a re-raise all in would be good to prevent him from getting a free turn. Like I said before, I think a raise by a thinking player in a situation like this is more likely to indicate some sort of draw rather than something like a set. [/ QUOTE ] Cant rerais indicate "I hit something like topp pair and you probably only bluff". Then all-in mean he will fold every hand you beat and only call with hands that beat you?
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#7
12-10-2005, 06:37 PM
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Re: Learning to think on the fly -- a test
Scenario one is one I flop bet for about $200. He isn't in with air but is going to be behind alot of the time here.
Scenario two is a default line, pot the flop, maybe even underbet the flop by a bit, just get him in this. Scenario three is an overbet like scenario one, I know they are polar opposites but the line is good for both. Cambraceres
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#9
12-10-2005, 06:51 PM
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Re: Learning to think on the fly -- a test
[ QUOTE ]
Game is 10-20 NL, 4 handed. Villain in the BB has $2600. You have him covered. Preflop Folded to you in the SB. You make it $75 to go in the SB with K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Villain calls. Flop K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Scenario 1 Villain is generally tight preflop. He tends to reach a "decision point" early in hands and does not fold a made hand very often on the turn or the river unless the board is very scary. He is generally sensitive to pot odds, etc. He is capable of bluffing and playing aggressively if he senses weakness. He is a winning player. [/ QUOTE ] If raised by Scenario 1 player after I have bet 2/3 of the pot on the flop, I am calling. Preflop: the pot was $150. After my bet (~$100), Villain's raise (~$400?), and my call, the pot should be at $950. With $950 in the pot, I am check-pushing on the turn.
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