Intellectual Abundance

[Lestat]

Most species seemed to have evolved without much waste. Take a lion's resources for instance. It's speed, power, and stalking abilities are just about exactly what it needs to survive. No more. No less. Likewise, healthy prey seemed to have developed just enough speed, camoflauge, and defense systems to stay just ahead of the game and continue producing offspring.

But one creature seems to have an evolutionary feature which has exploded well beyond evolutionary design for survival.

Of course, I'm referring to the human brain. Among the first few posts I read on SMP had DS weighing the significance on the utter importance of what high IQ people thought the chances of God were to what average IQ people thought and I had to chuckle. Because one thing is certain. Even the lowest IQ person (who is not otherwise mentally impaired), is still light years smarter than the next most intelligent known thing in the universe!

C'mon! We could get by on just a little over half as much intelligence that the average gibbon possesses. What evolutionary purpose is served by our being intelligent enough to send one of our own to the moon? What do we gain by having the intelligence to invent and partake in games like chess, or to calculate interplanetary distances, gravitional forces, to understand quantum mechanics, etc.,etc.? Why such an excess in potency of our main survival skill? Does anyone have any guesses?

In this one respect, I have to give in to theists on this one. Man, is special, unique, and gifted like no other creature on the planet.

[chezlaw]

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Most species seemed to have evolved without much waste. Take a lion's resources for instance. It's speed, power, and stalking abilities are just about exactly what it needs to survive. No more. No less. Likewise, healthy prey seemed to have developed just enough speed, camoflauge, and defense systems to stay just ahead of the game and continue producing offspring.

But one creature seems to have an evolutionary feature which has exploded well beyond evolutionary design for survival.

Of course, I'm referring to the human brain. Among the first few posts I read on SMP had DS weighing the significance on the utter importance of what high IQ people thought the chances of God were to what average IQ people thought and I had to chuckle. Because one thing is certain. Even the lowest IQ person (who is not otherwise mentally impaired), is still light years smarter than the next most intelligent known thing in the universe!

C'mon! We could get by on just a little over half as much intelligence that the average gibbon possesses. What evolutionary purpose is served by our being intelligent enough to send one of our own to the moon? What do we gain by having the intelligence to invent and partake in games like chess, or to calculate interplanetary distances, gravitional forces, to understand quantum mechanics, etc.,etc.? Why such an excess in potency of our main survival skill? Does anyone have any guesses?

In this one respect, I have to give in to theists on this one. Man, is special, unique, and gifted like no other creature on the planet.

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One theory discussed before is memes and natural selection. link

[Matt R.]

Smarter = better use of tools = better chance of survival and reproduction. As far as the really complicated stuff goes (i.e. theoretical physics, advanced mathematics, etc) this is just a direct consequence of the larger and more efficient brain. Also, our intelligence allows us to create better healthcare and medicines, giving us longer lifespans and, more importantly, vastly greater health. Also, let's not forget the advancement of agriculture and industry. These both lead to a much larger ceiling for population growth, leading to greater dispersal of genes. All of these things are consequences of our larger brains.

[Lestat]

I see what you're saying. I suppose advancements in agriculture is a way of using our resources that is not much different than say, a beaver building a dam. But I still say we don't need NEAR the intelligence we currently possess in order to survive and propagate on this planet. I understand our need for a larger brain given our inadequancies in other areas. But man's brain power is over-the-top.

[imported_luckyme]

I wonder if the peacock is pondering.

Selection pressures come at us from all sides. So, besides the obvious 'it was for other uses', such as language, trajectories, large social structure to track, etc, it's possible it's even more frivolous, such as 'quicker wit', or better story teller.

I'm not convinced we don't need it all. People with 90 IQ would be in pretty tough shape in a less coddling society. Evolution can be very slow and if was more impoprtant 5000 years ago we'd still be enjoying the benefits of it.

[Matt R.]

Lestat,
I think another good way to look at it is as follows:

When choosing a mate, intelligence has always been a positive quality, as it gives a higher probability of success to your offspring. Both in terms of the genes they get and the resources your mate can provide with his/her higher than normal intelligance. Even if there is no environmental selection pressuring for a higher and higher IQ, there is still sexual selection going on. When the more highly intelligent members of the species are favored, this leads to selection of their "high IQ" genes.

I think this may be more along the lines of what you were looking for. Once you get past the ability to use tools, there isn't much environmental selection going on for smarter individuals (e.g. we're not getting any reproductive advantage by formulating quantum mechanics). But, there is still sexual selection occuring for the more fit members, and intelligence is highly correlated with "fitness".

I believe that it has been suggested to you before but let me also encourage you to read The Ancestors Tale by Dawkins. In particular I recommend The Peacocks Tale where he lays out his theories for why the human brain is the way it is.

One of the best things about this book and Dawkins in particular is he is very honest and upfront about what science knows and can know. On this issue there is no consensus or even widely accepted position. Dawkins lays out a convincing case that our brain power is largely the result of sexual selection. I cant do it justice here and wont attempt to but like I said I recommend the book.

One other interesting point that Dawkins makes is very realted to your lion v prey scenerio of co-evolutionary harmony. There are recuring themes and patterns in evolution, prey and predator each get faster, bigger teeth for lions and predators result in thicker skins for prey, etc. When you find something in nature that is unique theres a good chance that sexual selection played a big role. Sexual selection kind of sends species shooting down evolutionary paths that are not expected and dont necassarily serve any survival purposes.

All that being said I dont know if I even addressed your main point. I dont know if I would agree with the theists but I do think there is something other than just increased intelligence that seperates us from animals. The soul and related concepts I dont think anyone has a good answer or explanation for. However, I do think that Dawkins and materialists like him are much closer to the truth than any theist. I suspect that whatever power of awareness that we have is also present in animals to some lesser degree.

[Lestat]

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Lestat,
I think another good way to look at it is as follows:

When choosing a mate, intelligence has always been a positive quality, as it gives a higher probability of success to your offspring. Both in terms of the genes they get and the resources your mate can provide with his/her higher than normal intelligance. Even if there is no environmental selection pressuring for a higher and higher IQ, there is still sexual selection going on. When the more highly intelligent members of the species are favored, this leads to selection of their "high IQ" genes.

I think this may be more along the lines of what you were looking for. Once you get past the ability to use tools, there isn't much environmental selection going on for smarter individuals (e.g. we're not getting any reproductive advantage by formulating quantum mechanics). But, there is still sexual selection occuring for the more fit members, and intelligence is highly correlated with "fitness".

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Well, this kind of throws my whole theorum of full figured blonde girls out the window. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] (sorry, I couldn't resist).

[Lestat]

<font color="blue"> Selection pressures come at us from all sides. So, besides the obvious 'it was for other uses', such as language, trajectories, large social structure to track, etc, it's possible it's even more frivolous, such as 'quicker wit', or better story teller. </font>

Language, trajectories and tracking social structure were obviously very important to our evolutionary advancement. I can also see how quicker wit and story telling may have played a role. But do you think evolution has a place for frivolousness? And this is really the point of my post...

Yes, we developed our overly large brains for specific reasons and specialized survival purposes. But is the rest just frivolous fluff? Or do we continue to get smarter and integrate new knowledge and intellectual skills in our evolutionary development? We are so far past the next highest species in the food chain, it's a joke. We have long since surpassed the threat from packs of carniverous predators. We have found ways to settle on all corners of the globe. Our biggest fear is man himself. Have we become our own predator? Do we now need to develop intellecutally (build war machines), in order to survive to survive as a species? Is our species looking to segregate? Is religion and/or other belief systems our way of breaking away so that one particular group will survive to higher evolutionary ground?

What other purposes does evolution have in store for all this intelligence?

[stackm]

[ QUOTE ]
<font color="blue"> Selection pressures come at us from all sides. So, besides the obvious 'it was for other uses', such as language, trajectories, large social structure to track, etc, it's possible it's even more frivolous, such as 'quicker wit', or better story teller. </font>

Language, trajectories and tracking social structure were obviously very important to our evolutionary advancement. I can also see how quicker wit and story telling may have played a role. But do you think evolution has a place for frivolousness? And this is really the point of my post...

Yes, we developed our overly large brains for specific reasons and specialized survival purposes. But is the rest just frivolous fluff? Or do we continue to get smarter and integrate new knowledge and intellectual skills in our evolutionary development? We are so far past the next highest species in the food chain, it's a joke. We have long since surpassed the threat from packs of carniverous predators. We have found ways to settle on all corners of the globe. Our biggest fear is man himself. Have we become our own predator? Do we now need to develop intellecutally (build war machines), in order to survive to survive as a species? Is our species looking to segregate? Is religion and/or other belief systems our way of breaking away so that one particular group will survive to higher evolutionary ground?

What other purposes does evolution have in store for all this intelligence?

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Evolution doesn't have "purposes in store" for anything - that's not how it works. It often appears that way because of the principle of survival of the fittest, but evolutionary processes aren't designed to do anything - not even to eliminate defects, etc. - that's just what happens. In the case of humans, there's no "purpose" for having incredible intellect any more than there's a purpose for having five fingers on each hand and not six; that's just the way it's worked out. Sexual selection seems like a very plausible explanation for this phenomenon.