3 Betting the Flop in Position HU

[QTip]

It occurred to me that I can't remember that last time I 3 bet the flop with a hand I thought was best on the flop when I was HU in position. The only time I think I've done this is when I want a free card, and I believe the opponent will give one to a 3 bet. Obviously, this is a leak that would need to be fixed if I was playing against observant opponents. However, at party 2/4, this doesn't concern me. If I think I have an edge on the flop, and I've been c/red, I always wait till the turn to pop it then after a card has come that I think has not helped my opponent. However, before I see that card, my plan is always to pop the turn unless I have reason not to do so.

Some have said to 3 bet this flop if I think I'm ahead. I don't see why. Please explain.

Are they other examples in a game in which people are not observing your tendencies in which 3 betting the flop HU in position would be best?

[Scotch78]

I remember a comment by gonores long ago in HUSH about raising the flop rather than waiting because the hero was more likely to get called down by a weak ace that way. I don't think this would apply as often in your scenario, but let's say I opened from late position and it's heads-up to a A62r flop. Villain is a TAG.

Scott

[Harv72b]

Why 3-bet the flop?

1) You can't always be sure that your opponent will lead the turn after you flat call his flop c/r. The c/r might have been a move and he's now given up on his hand, he might have been check/raising with a draw, or a scare card could come on the turn that causes him to check up. It's often correct to get in the raise when you know you can.

2) Especially if the flop is drawy in nature, he might still bet into you after a brick turn to take away your presumed free card.

3) You never know when he's going to cap it with a worse hand. I saw that a lot tonight (and needless to say, also saw a lot of turned 3-outers).

4) Vary your play. Even on 2/4, as many hands as you put in, there are going to be people who pick up on your patterns. 3-betting more often can not only win you more bets when you're good, it can set up more free cards when that's what you're looking for.

5) To many opponents, a turn raise is a lot scarier than a flop 3-bet. Guys who might've check/called to showdown after a flop 3-bet may well fold to your flop call/turn raise move. Which is good if you're bluffing on the turn, but that's not a good thing to do too often on most of the 2/4 tables I've sat on.

[Guruman]

I think you have to threebet sometimes when you have a vulnerable made hand on the flop.

ex:folded to an agg sb who raises and you defend with K7o. The flop comes 573 rainbow.

check, you bet, villain raises. You should probably reraise here. You hand is very vulnerable to high cards falling, and you're not likely to improve much. Villain may call you down with an ace or worse seven even after the threebet, in which case the raise was clearly the correct move.

If he check/folds the turn then you can threebet the flop with your good draws and high overcards HU with him in the future.

[hobbsmann]

I tend to 3-bet the flop a lot these days HU (which might or might not be optimal) mainly as a way to balance my play as I'm putting in a 3-bet in position a lot with the worst of it. Thus the times I have a good hand I will often 3-bet as a way to both gain credibility for future hands as well as extracting more from the current hand.

To expand more on the idea of extracting the most money from a play by 3-betting on the flop, your hand will often look more like a draw and will encourage people to call you down. When up against better competition the flop call/turn pop so often represents a big hand that people will start bet/folding the turn more against you, where if you had 3-bet the flop you might have ellicited a calldown from them.

[Carmine]

I rarely would 3-bet the flop back when I was playing 2/4 with a hand I was pretty sure was best. Popping the turn was the superior play by far. There was no point in 3-betting for deception either(i.e. he is going to think I would have waited to pop the turn with a strong hand, so I must be FOS, but I actually have a great hand. So I will 3-bet, get capped and then pop the turn again etc, etc.)

At 3/6 and 5/10 the players are more aggressive and better in general. They are check-raising their draws HU and they are not always betting the turn again with mediocre holdings. The flop becomes the street to maximize profits.

I'm not saying I would never 3-bet the flop at 2/4. I don't care how poorly many of these players may be. After I had the oppurtunity to call a flop raise and then raise the turn 3 or 4 times in a short period you need to mix up your game. Even bad palyers will learn to check the turn eventually.

[toss]

Sometimes bet/3-bet flop HU with best hand is better than bet/call - raise turn because theres some cards on the turn that will kill the action. Either villain won't bet or you won't want to raise since the turn card will either make villain fold or you yourself fear the card. Usually when a 4 straight or 4 flush hits.

Also some villains will learn to fold to the flop bet call, turn raise combo. Gotta mix it up.

[hobbsmann]

[ QUOTE ]
Sometimes bet/3-bet flop HU with best hand is better than bet/call - raise turn because theres some cards on the turn that will kill the action.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is a point I forgot to mention. The fact that often an action killer will come on the turn that will cause you to lose bets because villain will cease his aggresion.

[27offsooot]

Off the top of my head:
1. People believe flop 3 bets less than they do turn raises. You will see a lot more marginal call downs.
2. You'll know what to do on later streets if u three bet the flop. When you get c/red again on the turn by reasonable opponents, u'll save a bet then if u wait till turn, raise and then fold to a three bet.
3. Three betting maniacs on the flop is so so so so much fun. You'll get a lot more value this way.
4. Sometimes, they will still donk bet u and u can raise again.
5. I've seen people c/r and fold to a three bet when they almost always had outs vs. me.

Did i mention three betting maniacs is oh so much fun.