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  #1  
Old 11-28-2005, 05:11 PM
Joe Tall Joe Tall is offline
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Default Flop action?

20/40 Foxwoods.

It's about 4AM and the short game I was in just broke. I'm headed to the front to check out and there is open seats in a 6-handed game where there are 3 players falling asleep at the table as they look as they were drinking. I sit down.

This is my 2nd hand at the table and I just showded down a monster out of the BB where I held K2o, flopped K23r, bet got raised, 2-cold call, I 3-bet, all call, turn: 2 and I bet every street and get called down by 2 players. The player to my left raised the flop when he held Kh6h that he limped UTG, he paid off and showed. He is now the BB in this hand:

4 limpers to me in the SB w/8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], the BB raises, all call, 6 to the flop for 11.8 SBs:

K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

I... <font color="white"> donked </font>
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  #2  
Old 11-28-2005, 05:19 PM
BarronVangorToth BarronVangorToth is offline
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Default Re: Flop action?

Check-raise the flop. Cap if he three-bets.

Lead from there on. Kick the dealer while thinking "no spades."

Barron Vangor Toth
BarronVangorToth.com
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  #3  
Old 11-28-2005, 05:23 PM
W. Deranged W. Deranged is offline
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Default Re: Flop action?

Sounds good by me...

I'm also three-betting the turn so long as it's not another spade. I might slow down too if the turn paired the board and I got raised, though I'd probably throw in a three-bet and call down a cap in that case against the majority of opponents.

If the turn is a non-spade and I three-bet and get capped, I'm bet-calling or check-calling the river depending on who my opponent is.
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  #4  
Old 11-28-2005, 05:23 PM
bobdibble bobdibble is offline
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Default Re: Flop action?

BB is the lag from the first hand, right? If so, my plan here is to lead and hope he raises to clear out someone holding the T or 9 of spades.
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  #5  
Old 11-28-2005, 06:20 PM
Evan Evan is offline
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Default Re: Flop action?

I like betting the flop. BB will raise a lot with the two broadway cards on the board and maybe some middlish spades will fold. You don't want to risk BB checking if he has something like AQ or TT cause getting it checked around sucks and having one of the LP guys bet first sucks (slightly less).
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  #6  
Old 11-28-2005, 06:31 PM
gh9801 gh9801 is offline
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Default Re: Flop action?

Bet/threebet flop, keep putting in bets until the board or villains convince you to do otherwise
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  #7  
Old 11-28-2005, 08:03 PM
BWebb BWebb is offline
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Default Re: Flop action?

Put me in the checkraise camp. I understand the flop bet/hope for a raise line to knock out some middling spades, but I don't think that is necessary in this hand. With the hand having 6 players to the flop, I think players are less likely to think their 9 or 10 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] is going to be enough to take this down. Also, with the K and J being on the board, there are only 2 cards we would want and hope to get rid of (the 9 and 10). If the flop were 7-6-2 of spades, it would be more important to try and force out middle spades because there would be more of them. Plus, if the BB is going to raise a flop bet, he'd probably be very likely to 3-bet a checkraise, which will also face the field with two bets.
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  #8  
Old 11-28-2005, 08:13 PM
bobdibble bobdibble is offline
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Default Re: Flop action?

[ QUOTE ]
I think players are less likely to think their 9 or 10 is going to be enough to take this down.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was thinking more of someone that had something like A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] who would try to draw for an ace but could accidently hit a flush. (Not that they should be doing this, but I see it fairly often on boards like this.) Suppose the 4th spade comes on the river and the original flop bettor checks... the T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] will probably check, but I'd be willing to bet that they will call if the only river bet comes from late position. I see people call with that kind of crap all the time if they hit a weak draw with their kicker.
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  #9  
Old 11-28-2005, 08:31 PM
BWebb BWebb is offline
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Default Re: Flop action?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think players are less likely to think their 9 or 10 is going to be enough to take this down.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was thinking more of someone that had something like A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] who would try to draw for an ace but could accidently hit a flush. (Not that they should be doing this, but I see it fairly often on boards like this.) Suppose the 4th spade comes on the river and the original flop bettor checks... the T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] will probably check, but I'd be willing to bet that they will call if the only river bet comes from late position. I see people call with that kind of crap all the time if they hit a weak draw with their kicker.

[/ QUOTE ]

I kind of implied in my post with the "hope to fold" comment but didn't say specifically is that the 10 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] is the third nut draw on that board. Some players won't fold that draw, especially if they have something like A-10 that adds a straight draw. I think there are players that will fold the 9 or 10 of [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] on that board because it was multiway. Also, there are players who will NOT fold 9-10 of [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] on that board because it is the 3rd nut draw. Basically, the chances that those cards are out plus the chances we make them fold with a bet/PF raiser raises line is worth less than the money we make by going for a checkraise. I hope that makes sense, I'm at work so I'm trying to type fast.
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  #10  
Old 11-28-2005, 11:46 PM
sfer sfer is offline
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Default Re: Flop action?

[ QUOTE ]
I like betting the flop. BB will raise a lot with the two broadway cards on the board and maybe some middlish spades will fold. You don't want to risk BB checking if he has something like AQ or TT cause getting it checked around sucks and having one of the LP guys bet first sucks (slightly less).

[/ QUOTE ]

Ditto. In a live, East Coast mid-limit game, I think it's much more likely that a monotone flop gets checked around than online or West Coast players realize.
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