10-20 Stud8 Hand

[mscags]

No read on anyone as I just sat down and I never play this game anymore, but it has looked good lately so I decided to play. Third street call is debateable with the tight ante structure, but I was closing the action meh.

7 Card Stud High-Low ($10/$20), Ante $1, Bring-In $3 (converter)

3rd Street - (0.80 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 2: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 3: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 4: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls
Hero: 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 6: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___brings-in
Seat 7: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 8: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds

4th Street - (2.60 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 2: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 3: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___checks___calls
Seat 4: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___checks___folds
Hero: 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 6: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds

5th Street - (3.30 BB)

Seat 1: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Seat 2: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Seat 3: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets
Hero: 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___???

What and why with the intention of what on sixth and seventh?

[fnord_too]

Yuk! If the pot was bigger I would say raise to get the other two players out, but with it the size it is, I think this is a fold.

[Andy B]

I make the third-street call all day long. I bet fourth as well. I think fifth is a fold. The bettor probably doesn't have two pair, but he might. Even if he doesn't, he has two more cards to hit, which would leave you with three outs. There are two other players, either of whom is probably drawing live against your stinky two pair. 843 looks like he could have a low. This means two things:

1) You're probably playing for half the pot.

2) It could get expensive.

Of course, you could always call and make a small straight.

If nothing else, folding relieves me of the responsibility of coming up with a game-plan for sixth and seventh. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Am I the only one that would say 3rd is a fold? Yes, the ante structure proposes tight play and is there more than a minimum chance this hand will scoop? I'm probably not as experienced as most of you guys, but I have a gut feeling this hand is asking for trouble and I'm not suprised about ending up on 5th or 6th facing big troubles - what the heck am I gonna do? I advocate a fold and wait for 3s 4s 5s. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

I have little to no Stud 8 or Better experience as well, but does his hand need to have scooping potential in this situation for a call to be justified? He's getting excellent odds on 3rd street, even if his hand doesn't have a whole lot of two way potential. He could backdoor lots of hands (straights, trips, full houses, good lows) which would entitle him to at least half of a multiway pot. If he catches bad on 4th street, he can just muck his hand, otherwise he can see what develops for what will probably be a fairly good price.

Bear in mind I'm a Stud 8 novice, and this is just my interpretation.

[Aaron W.]

[ QUOTE ]
Am I the only one that would say 3rd is a fold? Yes, the ante structure proposes tight play and is there more than a minimum chance this hand will scoop? I'm probably not as experienced as most of you guys, but I have a gut feeling this hand is asking for trouble and I'm not suprised about ending up on 5th or 6th facing big troubles - what the heck am I gonna do? I advocate a fold and wait for 3s 4s 5s. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I would make this call just about always, and I'm ready to fold 4th immediately if things look bad (you catch good, but they catch better - or you catch bad, period). Your implied odds look like they're big enough to peel.

I don't think I would have bet fourth. A good card fell, but nobody really picked up any bricks. One of those guys has 4 to an 8-low and you're chasing with only 3 to a low. You've still got lots of high chances coming, but your straight needs to hit a gutshot 5 and your 8s are dead for the high straight. So you're looking at sixes up or sevens up as your likely high hand. It might be enough, but I would like to get to 5th cheaply.

I'd say you're right in theory. The problem is that you will get sucked in with a hand like this, never to bad to fold, never to good to jam. It's multiway now, but from 5th and forward it might be 3-way or just you and the guy with an ace. The real problem with those hands is that you can probably never start jammin. On 4th you want As 3s 4s 5d - start jammin. On 5th you want hands like As 6h 3h 4c 7d/ 8s 7d 5h 2c 6s - start jammin.

I think you should fold here, because seats 1 and 2 have better lows than you showing, and seat 3 could easily cach Aces up.

[Andy B]

I would like people to fold on fifth. They are more likely to do so if I set them up to do so by betting fourth.

[Aaron W.]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd say you're right in theory. The problem is that you will get sucked in with a hand like this, never to bad to fold, never to good to jam. It's multiway now, but from 5th and forward it might be 3-way or just you and the guy with an ace. The real problem with those hands is that you can probably never start jammin. On 4th you want As 3s 4s 5d - start jammin. On 5th you want hands like As 6h 3h 4c 7d/ 8s 7d 5h 2c 6s - start jammin.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree that you must always wait for those super-strong hands to jam 4th and 5th. All you need to know is that you're probably way ahead of everyone else.

I also don't follow your logic. You seem to be implying that the hand is unprofitable because you need to have jamming hands to be profitable. In this case, all of the important villains picked up something good on 4th:

Seat 1: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <--- low
Seat 2: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <--- low
Seat 3: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <--- low
Seat 4: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <--- ???
Hero: 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <--- Hero
Seat 6: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <--- low

4th street could very well have come down totally different:

Seat 1: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <--- brick
Seat 2: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <--- low
Seat 3: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <--- brick
Seat 4: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <--- ???
Hero: 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <--- Hero
Seat 6: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <--- brick

All of a sudden, you're staring at mostly garbage boards and the one board that isn't garbage is drawing to an 8 low, which you might beat even if he already has 4 to a low. If the action were checked around to me, I'd bet. I don't have a hand where I would go for 3-4 bets, but it's still a profitable hand to play.