$15+$1 Turbo - I Can't Fold, Can I?

-Skeme- · #1 10-03-2005, 10:35 AM

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PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (5 handed)

Button (t1370)
SB (t1210)
Hero (t1305)
UTG (t4800)
MP (t4815)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls t100, 1 fold, Button calls t100, 1 fold, Hero checks.

Flop: (t350) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets t200, UTG raises to t600, Button folds, Hero calls t400.

Turn: (t1550) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets t700, Hero ??
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I'm getting over 3.7:1 on my call, and I figure him to only have a Jack, but not AJ, so my Aces are still live. Against the range I've put him on, I'm about a 2.3:1 underdog, so I have the current odds, and folding would leave me crippled, but still in the game.

Am I getting too much of an overlay to even think of folding? Also, what's a better line for this hand? Should I just be folding to this flop raise? If I think I can get his whole stack if I hit the turn, should I be calling? Or am I too short to even be considering this?

Thanks a lot.

ezmogee · #2 10-03-2005, 10:38 AM

No at this point you cant fold, bc you only have 700 chips left, youll be the shortstack and blinds are 50/100.

That said, in this type of situation, I'd check/raise the flop hard or allin. Get it allin on the flop as the raiser.

That will avoid tough decisions like these.

the_joker · #3 10-03-2005, 10:40 AM

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Also, what's a better line for this hand?

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Check/fold the flop? I don't think you have enough chips to be chasing draws.

durron597 · #4 10-03-2005, 10:41 AM

Fold flop to his raise. You aren't quite getting 3:1 and you need 5:1. Plus your implied odds aren't there since one of your OESD outs is an ace, and he might fold a Jack on the turn if an ace hits. So just fold flop. Unless of course you think there's a chance he'll fold QJ on this board (very unlikely in the $16s) in which case I would push the flop.

On the turn, of course call.

durron597 · #5 10-03-2005, 10:43 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Also, what's a better line for this hand?

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Check/fold the flop? I don't think you have enough chips to be chasing draws.

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He takes the pot down a lot of the time with his 200 chip bet if a Jack isn't out.

I really think this is a clear bet/fold flop.

-Skeme- · #6 10-03-2005, 10:52 AM

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Check/fold the flop? I don't think you have enough chips to be chasing draws.

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I have a good amount of fold equity with my flop lead. To Durron, I don't think an Ace would stop Villain from putting in his whole stack. It seems folding to his flop raise is the best play. After his raise, no, I do not think he's folding to an all in.

How much do you guys figure I need to make the flop call.

pooh74 · #7 10-03-2005, 11:17 AM

There are two other stacks your size and two big ones. That is what is key about this hand to me.

I am either going broke or doubling up here and I want all of the FE I can get out of my draw. I would CR all-in on the flop, or check fold. The way the hand played out it looks like he likes his hand...but on the flop you have no idea, so I would use my last bit of stack getting him to fold...and if not, I have 8 outs.

Probably the worst mistake I ever see is a player putting half their stack in and retreating.

-Skeme- · #8 10-03-2005, 11:23 AM

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Probably the worst mistake I ever see is a player putting half their stack in and retreating.

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True. I like a flop check-raise in this spot, too.

the_joker · #9 10-03-2005, 11:49 AM

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I am either going broke or doubling up here

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Why's is everyone so impatient on this hand? You have 12 BB left and are even with the other 2 third place stacks at the table. I don't think you have much fold equity on a check-raise against the giant stack.

pooh74 · #10 10-03-2005, 12:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
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I am either going broke or doubling up here

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Why's is everyone so impatient on this hand? You have 12 BB left and are even with the other 2 third place stacks at the table. I don't think you have much fold equity on a check-raise against the giant stack.

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No I meant...If I am playing this hand, that is the outcome. I did say I could check fold this flop too. But that is where my perception of villain tips the scale. If I view villain as Lagish, I will CR all in. If I see him as rockish I could easily check fold. Somewhere in between the two I let my mood decide.