Final table hand of a Party 50+5

[psyduck]

Okay push? Everyone has been playing tight so far. I have only shown down AQ an orbit ago. I hated myself after this push because I'm pushing into the chipleader (Baddbo), but I have ~9BB.


***** Hand History for Game 2639405492 *****
NL Texas Hold'em Trny:15375592 Level:16 Blinds (2000/4000) - Friday, September 02, 05:05:34 EDT 2005
Table Multi-Table(444763) Table #1 (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 2: Hero ( $36948 )
Seat 6: Chump ( $33695 )
Seat 4: ducgoose ( $113328 )
Seat 10: Bullywulf ( $120 )
Seat 1: TeachingPro ( $38959 )
Seat 3: Baddbo ( $153200 )
Seat 5: db281081 ( $12952 )
Seat 7: TomA318 ( $55050 )
Seat 9: zombi31 ( $25748 )
Trny:15375592 Level:16
Blinds (2000/4000)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero [ 6d 8d ]
ducgoose folds.
db281081 folds.
Chump folds.
TomA318 folds.
zombi31 folds.
Bullywulf folds.
TeachingPro folds.
Hero is all-In [34948]

[psyduck]

[censored] I WASTED A FINAL TABLE WHERE EVERYONE WAS PLAYING TIGHT AND I COULD POTENTIALLY STEAL LIBERALLLLY. AAAAARGH!!

[betgo]

With 8xBB, push suited gapper from SB. It doesn't matter if BB is likely to get called. You are unlikely to be in bad shape if called. You have pot odds and folding equity. I push any average or above hand here.

I gather he called and busted you. What did BB have? I doubt you were dominated.

[psyduck]

[ QUOTE ]
With 8xBB, push suited gapper from SB. It doesn't matter if BB is likely to get called. You are unlikely to be in bad shape if called. You have pot odds and folding equity. I push any average or above hand here.

I gather he called and busted you. What did BB have? I doubt you were dominated.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks. He had 55 (I was so happy when I saw it, because he called ultra-fast, and I was actually a favorite).

This would be an auto- allin on a STT assuming a tightish range for the big stack (nothing he had done told me otherwise). Does the same principle exist in a very top heavy payout MTT structure? Does it make more sense to not squeeze every bit of EV out if it means people will be eliminated and I get to advance spots? Note that there's a micro stack (0.1BB) sitting around.

In retrospect, it was such a marginal all-in, and since big stacks tend to loosen up compared to medium stacks, I should have either completed or folded. Maybe, maybe not.

All in all, I think I'm being results-oriented, but this was my first final table of a good sized MTT (I usually just 8-table 30+3 STTs), and this hand made me puke when I got $350 for 9th when 1st was $5K+

(xposted a little in the STT forum)

[psyduck]

Another question: would you make the call with 55 in that position as BB?

[flyingmoose]

[ QUOTE ]
Another question: would you make the call with 55 in that position as BB?

[/ QUOTE ]

With his stack? Hell yeah.

[betgo]

So you were the favorite plus pot odds. I don't think you can fold 86s here. Atleast half the time villain will fold, because he has junk.

[psyduck]

[ QUOTE ]
So you were the favorite plus pot odds. I don't think you can fold 86s here. Atleast half the time villain will fold, because he has junk.

[/ QUOTE ]

Couple things:

1. He is the chip leader. Doesn't that mean his range widens a little? The old adage: don't try to steal from huge stacks or tiny stacks.
2. I'm pushing with 9 BB (sorry, mistake earlier). This is marginal in the first place. 10 BB would be cutoff point where I would fold.
3. There are smaller stacks than me. Even a very very tiny stack.
4. Payout is very top heavy. Does this mean I should be playing for 1st, but settle for 9th (i.e. get all the EV I can accumulate)?? Even 5th gets $1K+. Should I have been more patient?

Like I said, this would be an autopush in a STT, but I don't know if it'd be any different just because it's a very top-heavy MTT.

[betgo]

Even if his calling range is wide, he still has to fold about half his hands. If he wants to call with junk, that's OK with you too.

Half the time, you gain 1.5xBB when he folds. So you need to lose less than 1.5xBB the other half of the time. With pot odds, you need to have a 38% chance if called. It seems like is is EV+, particularly when compared with losing .5xBB by folding (If you complete, villain probably pushes with a hand he would call a push with. What do you do then?). Also, he may call somewhat less than half the time.

If there was ante or the BB was tight, this would be a real easy push.

You can push with a suited gapper from earlier position, as the likelihood of being called does not go up that much, and you don't mind too much being called by a strong hand like AK or AQ.

While you can wait for a couple of people to bust, you are better off gambling for the big money. This is a classic gambling play, as there is a good chance you will be called and it will be close to a toss up. Unfortunately, you lost the gamble. If you had won the hand and taken 2nd in the tournament, you probably would not have posted this.

[psyduck]

[ QUOTE ]
Even if his calling range is wide, he still has to fold about half his hands. If he wants to call with junk, that's OK with you too.

Half the time, you gain 1.5xBB when he folds. So you need to lose less than 1.5xBB the other half of the time. With pot odds, you need to have a 38% chance if called. It seems like is is EV+, particularly when compared with losing .5xBB by folding (If you complete, villain probably pushes with a hand he would call a push with. What do you do then?). Also, he may call somewhat less than half the time.

If there was ante or the BB was tight, this would be a real easy push.

You can push with a suited gapper from earlier position, as the likelihood of being called does not go up that much, and you don't mind too much being called by a strong hand like AK or AQ.

While you can wait for a couple of people to bust, you are better off gambling for the big money. This is a classic gambling play, as there is a good chance you will be called and it will be close to a toss up. Unfortunately, you lost the gamble. If you had won the hand and taken 2nd in the tournament, you probably would not have posted this.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow thank you, this is exactly what I needed to hear.