KJo, bet the turn with outs?

KDawgCometh · #1 08-11-2005, 04:24 PM

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP1 calls, 1 fold, MP3 calls, Hero calls, 2 folds, BB checks.

Flop: (4.50 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB bets, MP1 calls, MP3 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.25 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, MP1 checks, MP3 checks, Hero bets

yes? No real reads as I had been table hoping, but this table seemed like your normal 2/4 BBJ table

shant · #2 08-11-2005, 04:28 PM

Seems to me like someone has an A with 4 callers on the flop and you need that free card.

W. Deranged · #3 08-11-2005, 04:31 PM

I'm a little afraid of a check-raise from a made flush, but with the nut draw in a four way field and five other outs to beat A's I find a bet on the turn for all of the following reasons:

1. Value - the pair plus the draw seems to put you in a pretty good spot in a 4 way field; getting check-raised and having to play heads-up sucks but I think I see value here
2. Hand protection (it's a small consideration but I'd like to see Q's and gutshots fold)
3. Very outside chance of promotion (weak A's from very tight weak types might drop here)
4. The fact I'm in position and have the option of taking a free showdown but will probably be calling a river bet anyway.

PTjvs · #4 08-11-2005, 04:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm a little afraid of a check-raise from a made flush, but with the nut draw in a four way field

[/ QUOTE ]

He has the 2nd nut draw, not the nut draw.

W. Deranged · #5 08-11-2005, 04:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm a little afraid of a check-raise from a made flush, but with the nut draw in a four way field

[/ QUOTE ]

He has the 2nd nut draw, not the nut draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

Right... my bad.

But I have a hard time seeing why the nut draw would check this turn (unless it is intending to check-raise with a made flush). I think our draw is good here a large majority of the time.

Derek in NYC · #6 08-11-2005, 05:05 PM

Bet the turn, call a check-raise. Check a non-club river unless you are heads up or perhaps three-handed.

Edit: on the other hand, Shant has a better point. You can take a free card here and call a river bet.

HolyBejeesus · #7 08-11-2005, 05:05 PM

Raise preflop. I agree with W. Deranged, bet the turn.

KDawgCometh · #8 08-11-2005, 05:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Raise preflop. I agree with W. Deranged, bet the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, that's one thing I thought after I limped PF, I played this soon after waking up, so there might've been some vagness going on.

Is there any question about the flop call?

KDawgCometh · #9 08-11-2005, 05:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Seems to me like someone has an A with 4 callers on the flop and you need that free card.

[/ QUOTE ]

is it worth betting to get a rid of any gutshot peelers incase I hit two pair

W. Deranged · #10 08-11-2005, 05:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Raise preflop. I agree with W. Deranged, bet the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, that's one thing I thought after I limped PF, I played this soon after waking up, so there might've been some vagness going on.

Is there any question about the flop call?

[/ QUOTE ]

I call on the flop getting 7.5-1 and closing the action with almost any pair on the flop (given I believe my outs will be good a high percentage of the time), particularly if I have a backdoor draw.