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  #21  
Old 07-09-2005, 09:40 AM
Myrtle Myrtle is offline
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Default Rose-Colored Glasses..........

The whole issue of labeling anyone’s political views (in toto) baffles me.

Most of us who post here pretend to be poker players.

Good poker players understand that +EV is gained by ‘making good decisions’, not by sticking to one broad-based platform that attempts to deal with all specifics by embracing a ‘one size fits all’ strategy.

Making good decisions is fundamentally based upon analyzing and understanding the dynamics of each particular hand one participates in, so that the best decision for that hand can be made.

Why is it that in this forum here on 2+2 we can so easily depart from this discipline when the subject is politics?

Is it instinct that causes us to revert to some sort of tribalistic credo where our overwhelming need to belong to part of a larger group precedes our common sense?

Do we, as individuals, have some sort of overwhelming need for security of numbers that support our position that overrides the discipline of examining each and every issue on its’ own merit?

As I’m writing this, and thinking about it, perhaps that explains why most poker players are –EV?

Perhaps most of us simply cannot get away from the faulty thinking processes that have been so thoroughly ingrained in us since childhood?

I can’t help but wonder that if each of us could look at some of these issues, without viewing it through our own ‘rose-colored’ political ideological eyeglasses, that all of us might be much better off.
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  #22  
Old 07-09-2005, 10:56 AM
[censored] [censored] is offline
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Default Re: What I do not understand about the conservative ideology

Once again this thread is filled with Liberals deciding that conservatives in order to be conservative should really be adopting the liberal position.

Again when it comes to social issues Conservaties simply believe that their communities should represent thier common values and these should be decided by the people (through elected representatives) at the local or state level and not by judges.
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  #23  
Old 07-09-2005, 11:07 AM
JackWhite JackWhite is offline
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Default Re: What I do not understand about the conservative ideology

[ QUOTE ]
Once again this thread is filled with Liberals deciding that conservatives in order to be conservative should really be adopting the liberal position.

Again when it comes to social issues Conservaties simply believe that their communities should represent thier common values and these should be decided by the people (through elected representatives) at the local or state level and not by judges.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is what I was thinking. I find it interesting that people are so obsessed with telling others how they aren't true to their own ideology, especially when they don't share it.

The concept of the post is off base in my opinion. If you don't believe in either no governmental intervention all on issues or total intervention, it apparently means you are a hypocrit with no real principles. There is no reason people cannot look at each issue and come up with a policy/decision they feel is best.
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  #24  
Old 07-09-2005, 11:15 AM
lehighguy lehighguy is offline
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Default Re: What I do not understand about the conservative ideology

"The only conceivable victim is the fetus"

If you believe it to be a person, how can it be any less then killing a person.

You've tried to frame it in a government control framework. That somehow being pro-life made you anti-freedom. In reality you never have the "right" to kill another human being.

That is why the two movements talk past eachother. The left doesn't realize you can't have a right to kill another human being.

As far as why we persecute criminals I hope justice fits in there somewhere. If someone murders someone, even if I can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that he won't do it again, he should still go to jail.
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  #25  
Old 07-09-2005, 11:16 AM
lehighguy lehighguy is offline
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Default Re: What I do not understand about the conservative ideology

No, republicans believe that the government should legislate morality and values. Conservatives realize that's facism.
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  #26  
Old 07-09-2005, 11:22 AM
JackWhite JackWhite is offline
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Default Re: What I do not understand about the conservative ideology

[ QUOTE ]
No, republicans believe that the government should legislate morality and values. Conservatives realize that's facism.


[/ QUOTE ]

Can you give me a few examples of recent fascistic legislation passed? And by the way, what are morality and values? Does that mean when Republicans pass laws, they are pushing their values which is wrong? Don't Democrats talk about their "values"?

If Democrats believe that you shouldn't be able to discriminate on who you sell your house to, aren't they telling you what you can do with your own property? Isn't that pushing their values unto you, even if you don't share them?
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  #27  
Old 07-09-2005, 11:31 AM
lehighguy lehighguy is offline
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Default Re: What I do not understand about the conservative ideology

I'm not a democrat, I think they're a bunch of authoritarians too, so don't bother trying to fight hypocracy with hypocracy.

Opposing gay marraige is legislating morality.
The FCC fining a network for a "wardrobe malfunction" is legislating morality.
The FDA and drug laws are regulating morality.

Anytime you tell people they aren't allowed to act a certain way even if thier actions don't harm others your legislating morality.
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  #28  
Old 07-09-2005, 11:41 AM
JackWhite JackWhite is offline
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Default Re: What I do not understand about the conservative ideology

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not a democrat, I think they're a bunch of authoritarians too, so don't bother trying to fight hypocracy with hypocracy.

Opposing gay marraige is legislating morality.
The FCC fining a network for a "wardrobe malfunction" is legislating morality.
The FDA and drug laws are regulating morality.

Anytime you tell people they aren't allowed to act a certain way even if thier actions don't harm others your legislating morality.


[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, fine. I just want to make sure people are consistent. I always here people attack "legislation morality" when they only apply it to when Republicans do something. It sounds like you are consistent. That is all I ask.
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  #29  
Old 07-09-2005, 11:59 AM
Greg J Greg J is offline
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Default Re: What I do not understand about the conservative ideology

[ QUOTE ]
No, Ricky Ricky, you're wrong. Don't get involved in this if you don't know what you are talking about.

[/ QUOTE ]
Actually he is 100% dead on, according to the correct termonology of the study of politics. A conservative, in its broader orginal meaning has no problem with more government spending, and more government involvment in people's lives. You are talking about the Americanized version of the word conservative, which is totally different.

A good example of a true conservative in the classical sense is the German Christian Democrats. They (traditionally) support social programs, along with "Christian (Catholic) values," oppose abortion and homosexuality, and stand for "good moral values."

Liberals are similar to libertarians in this country. They are exemplified by Parties like the larger EU Parliament voting block, the Liberal Party in Germany, Shinui in Israel, and Democrats 66 in the Netherlands.

Sorry, but for the record, Ricky was right. You need to take my Intro to Comparative Politics class. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
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  #30  
Old 07-09-2005, 06:37 PM
natedogg natedogg is offline
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Default Re: What I do not understand about the conservative ideology

The terms "conservative" and "liberal" these days tend to mean whatever it is an attacking critic wants it to mean at the time.

[ QUOTE ]

Mondern conservative positions on some issues in particular seem counterproductive and anachronistic, and are based on lawmakers' insistence on forcing people to do what they think is good for them.

[/ QUOTE ]

I tend to think of it this way. Republicans want you do what god knows is best for you. Democrats want you to do what the state knows is best for you.

Only the libertarians actually respect individual decision making.


[ QUOTE ]
Many of these positions relate to so-called "victimless crimes." For instance, why should somebody be punished for not wearing a seatbelt, underage drinking and gambling, smoking marijuana, or attempting/assisting another with suicide?

[/ QUOTE ]

All those examples apply to liberal politicians just as well. Your post should be asking "why do politicians of all stripes have such utter disdain for our individual decision making? Be it drug use, our retirement, diet, smoking, car insurance, gambling, you name it. They ALL want to decide for us".

And the stupid sheep keep voting for them and everyone is apparently convinced that the only issue of import is abortion, which by the way is the ONLY issue where liberal Democrats actually support individual liberty. In every other issue they just as hypocritical as, say Robert Bork.

natedogg
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