zaxx19 says "Get out of the Kiddie Pool and make some moves", so I do - Page 3

tbach24 · #21 03-30-2005, 06:40 PM

How do you consider it so unlikely for UTG (that's what I meant in my last post) to have a flush draw? He lead the flop hard, check/called the turn, and checked the river. Against a player I suspect of drawing to a weaker flush (you) then that's the line I'm taking on the turn and river.

KowCiller · #22 03-30-2005, 06:51 PM

Soah addressed this above, he would have probably led the river. Of course, it's not 100%.

But even still, I consider flush vs. flush an edge case in this situation. I wouldn't at all consider UTG's line "standard" for a flush draw out of position against one player he respects and a donk.

For those who are keeping score, I'm not the donk (i hope) [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Honestly I'm really surprised a the number of people that don't like my play on this hand. Am I being clear that I'm not advocating this as a standard line for drawing to an OESD on a 2 suited flop?

KoW

TheWorstPlayer · #23 03-30-2005, 07:14 PM

Well, soah knows the guy and has played in that game so if he likes it that should carry a lot of weight. Also he plays g00t. Also he agreed with me. So what else could you ask for? [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

BTW, what was your thought process on calling the flop? I'm curious.

KC50 · #24 03-30-2005, 07:17 PM

MP fish bets $15 into an $85 pot. Cha-Ching! Remember what you said earlier about him. Well there it is. This is where I would have raised and most likely will take the pot. Sounds like UTG is on a flush draw and you should charge him too much to draw. Is UTG Jason? If so his bet on the flop is routine.

KC

TheWorstPlayer · #25 03-30-2005, 07:30 PM

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Is UTG Jason?

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This was a hand from this weekend. UTG was Jason. It was a very weird line for him to take.

KoW

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Reading is your friend. And when you say that his flop bet is routine do you mean that it is routine, given a specific holding (like a flush draw) or do you just mean that it is so routine that it tells you nothing about his hand?

KC50 · #26 03-30-2005, 07:49 PM

***Correction***Instead of "sounds like UTG is on a flush draw and you should charge him too much to draw"....

Meant to say that it sounds like MP1 is the one on the flush draw or maybe bottom pair with such an undersized bet to the flop.

Knowing UTG his is most likely holding a pp under JJ such as 66 77 99 or even 10-10. JJ (maybe 10-10) he would most likely bring it in UTG with a raise.

UTG leading the flop is routine with those variety of hands is what I meant also.

KowCiller · #27 03-30-2005, 08:14 PM

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BTW, what was your thought process on calling the flop? I'm curious.

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When UTG bet, I planned on folding initially. After the donk in MP1 called him and CO folded, I was getting about 3:1 on an OESD in position. Typically, this is an automuck for me given the hearts on the flop, however I felt I had UTG's range of hands narrowed down pretty well leading into the field (TP, mid PP, possibly set of 5s/8s).

The MP1 donk could have absolutely anything, and I had a good read on him based on the amount he bet on other hands, and I had made him lay down hands before based on his weak bets. Also on the flop I planned to use non-board-pairing hearts as bluff cards, so I felt I could profitably see the turn.

So basically, the only reason I called the flop was the potential to take the pot away if a heart came and I could be sure no one else was on hearts. Had a heart come on turn, I probably would not have tried to make a play at it, since the turn's play was so crucial to defining my hand (imo) for UTG and I had a pretty good feel for MP1 being very weak.

I generally don't draw to straights on a flush board, but given the lineup and what I felt were strong reads, I decided to try to make a play. Additionally, if UTG did have a set and I made my straight on the turn or river, he wouldn't put me on a straight draw with the two flush out there, so I felt my hand would be well disguised.

[ QUOTE ]
Well, soah knows the guy and has played in that game so if he likes it that should carry a lot of weight. Also he plays g00t. Also he agreed with me. So what else could you ask for?

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Yes, he does play g00t, and so do you. So you're right, I shouldn't ask for much else [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

KoW

KowCiller · #28 03-30-2005, 08:18 PM

I bet $100 on the river. UTG folds. MP1 looks at me, shakes his head, mutters about the damn hearts and folds.

I take it down.

Thanks for all who replied. It doesn't seem like hands such as these are posted much, although that's probably because the metagame/flop texture/reads have to be all correct in order to attempt many "moves" besides "raise with trash, bet the flop"

Am I out of the kiddie pool yet?

KoW

tbach24 · #29 03-30-2005, 08:22 PM

Who is that in your avatar?

TheWorstPlayer · #30 03-30-2005, 08:29 PM

I would say you were out of the kiddie pool, but you blatantly lied in your thread title since this hand happened before zaxx's post, so I can't reward you with a compliment. Ni han, though.

And thanks for saying I play well, but if that were the case why did I just bust out on UB?[img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img] I think I post orders of magnitude better than I play.