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  #1  
Old 03-28-2005, 11:57 AM
KowCiller KowCiller is offline
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Default Flopped flush against loose/semi-aggr ABC player

Live $2-$5, $200max B&M game.

My stack: $325
Villain's stack: $415

Villain is in MP and is steaming because he's been check-raised like 4x by this guy sitting to my left. Each time the guy had the goods. Villain is a little too loose and can be semi aggressive if he feels he can take the pot away. He's played with me before and knows I'm solid.

I'm in the BB with T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. 2 limpers, including Villain in MP, SB completes, I check.

Flop ($20) K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].

SB checks, I check, EP checks, Villain bets $20. SB folds, I check-raise to $60, EP folds, Villain calls.

This troubled me a bit, because I felt I would take it down right there. I think Villain has at least pair of queens, and probably some spade to go with it. He could be on a nekkid A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].

Turn ($120) Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].

I sensed that the Q helped him, but I'm not sure how. Perhaps trips, perhaps boat, or perhaps just 2pair.

I checked, Villain bet $100. I push.

Comments on all streets appreciated.

Thanks,
KoW
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  #2  
Old 03-28-2005, 12:06 PM
maranello11 maranello11 is offline
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Default Re: Flopped flush against loose/semi-aggr ABC player

I like it, he is either drawing with A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] or he just got trips q's. I hope he called and missed on the river
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  #3  
Old 03-28-2005, 02:35 PM
PinkSteel PinkSteel is offline
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Default Re: Flopped flush against loose/semi-aggr ABC player

Were you that confident of seeing a bet behind you on the flop? I'd be afraid of letting a dry A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] see the turn for free.
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  #4  
Old 03-28-2005, 02:45 PM
KowCiller KowCiller is offline
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Default Re: Flopped flush against loose/semi-aggr ABC player

[ QUOTE ]
Were you that confident of seeing a bet behind you on the flop? I'd be afraid of letting a dry A see the turn for free.

[/ QUOTE ]

It was certainly a risk, but this guy does like to bet when checked to. That's part of the reason why I posted this hand.

After the hand was over, I thought perhaps I should bet and fold to a raise. However, I had to determine the best course of action based on the range of hands that Villain would bet with when checked to in that spot.

That range, coupled with the fact that I felt the queen hit him, led to my check-raise all in. Also, it crossed my mind that if we both flopped the flush (with his higher) I might have some minscule amount of fold equity when the board paired up.

Would you have led the turn? If so, how much? (keeping in mind stack sizes)

KoW
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  #5  
Old 03-28-2005, 03:09 PM
PinkSteel PinkSteel is offline
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Default Re: Flopped flush against loose/semi-aggr ABC player

I would probably have bet the turn just like I would have bet the flop, to prevent a lone A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] from seeing a free card. However, (1) that's without the reads you had, and (2) I have not yet evolved beyond donkey status.
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  #6  
Old 03-28-2005, 05:17 PM
KC50 KC50 is offline
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Default Re: Flopped flush against loose/semi-aggr ABC player

I don't care for your check on the flop at all. IMO it shouldn't make any difference what read you have on 1 opponent, 4 of you saw the flop.

In a multi-way pot the only way I check a flopped flush (not nut) playing for a check raise is if I "KNOW" (and I don't mean "I THINK") someone will bet. 4 saw the flop and it is very possible all would check behind giving the A and J of spades a free card.

Many players would think anyone who flopped a flush would not bet it even one who considers you solid.

Thus another reason to lead out being you mentioned the villian is a bit too loose and when he senses he can take the pot away he may try and do so. So if/when he does you push. If he just smooth calls and a blank hits the turn you can put more pressure on him then.

IMHO your play is much better if you were heads up with the described villian.

KC
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  #7  
Old 03-28-2005, 05:37 PM
KowCiller KowCiller is offline
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Default Re: Flopped flush against loose/semi-aggr ABC player

[ QUOTE ]
Thus another reason to lead out being you mentioned the villian is a bit too loose and when he senses he can take the pot away he may try and do so. So if/when he does you push. If he just smooth calls and a blank hits the turn you can put more pressure on him then.


[/ QUOTE ]

Most people in this game do not try to take pots away from others when they show aggression on a scary board. Most try to steal pots when no aggression is shown. Would you agree?

Lets say I lead the flop and get called, what's my action on the turn if a spade hits? check/fold? At least by check/raising, I've knocked an A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] or J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] out between me and the aggressive villain.

Flop play aside, what do you think about my play on the turn?

Edit:

[ QUOTE ]
In a multi-way pot the only way I check a flopped flush (not nut) playing for a check raise is if I "KNOW" (and I don't mean "I THINK") someone will bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well I can't say I knew for 100% certainty that this steaming opponent would bet the flop, but I can say I was reasonably sure he would.

KoW
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  #8  
Old 03-28-2005, 05:48 PM
KC50 KC50 is offline
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Default Re: Flopped flush against loose/semi-aggr ABC player

I'm right with you on your action on the turn.

You ask what if a spade hits the turn? Check fold would be the logical, but what about leading out maybe a small bet?

Think about why this might be a course of action instead of just shutting down, allowing him to bet with anything if indeed a spade does hit the turn and you check.

KC
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  #9  
Old 03-28-2005, 05:56 PM
soah soah is offline
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Default Re: Flopped flush against loose/semi-aggr ABC player

I would just bet out the whole way. You won't get credit for a flush and will get action from hands drawing very thin or dead, and you'll also protect yourself against hands with one big spade.
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  #10  
Old 03-29-2005, 02:24 AM
joewatch joewatch is offline
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Default Re: Flopped flush against loose/semi-aggr ABC player

When you check-raised the flop, villain has got to think you have a made flush or you are semi-bluffing. Possible hands are KQ, AK, A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]X. I think AQo is possible but less likely.

I think leading the turn is a much better play since you already showed aggression on the flop, and showing weakness by checking is not a good idea when you don't have the nuts. Fold to a raise.
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