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  #1  
Old 03-14-2005, 02:22 AM
Sparks Sparks is offline
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Default \"I Play the Board,\" I lose the pot, I miss a bet.

Hawaiian Gardens 20-40. I raise PF with 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] from the cutoff, and get three callers including the button. At the river, it is just me and the button, and I try to buy the pot by betting with a board of J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. The button calls. A guy at the table says "I want too see both hands dealer," at which time I say loudly "I play the board" and throw my hand face down into the muck. The button then tosses his hand face down in the middle of the table.

The dealer fishes my cards out of the muck and shows them, then turns up the other guy's hand which is K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], giving him aces and kings. Hand over. He wins.

What ensues is 5 minutes of spirited discussion about the hand and the rules between at least 4 players from our table and one player from a nearby table with me making the claim that I would have won if the button's hand had not been turned up. It got to the point where the guy who asked to "see both hands" says to me, "I'll give you 10 to 1 odds on a $100 bet that you would not have won the hand if the other player's cards would have gone into the muck face down." Because he looked a little scary and was way tilted, I declined the bet. Along with the fear of getting beat up outside by the guy after winning the bet, there are always problems with bets like that, especially with people you don't know. And again, I didn't want to get beat up.

We called over the shift manager between hands and asked him the question, and he told us that even though I stated "I play the board" prior to my mucking my hand, I would not have won if the other guy would have mucked his hand. So the guy who offered me the 10 to 1 bet is cackling loudly saying "I told you I was right" blah blah blah. He left a bit later.

Twenty minutes or so go by, and the shift manager comes over and says he made a mistake (very cool guy, btw). He shows me the HG Poker Rules book, and it says "A player may announce 'I play the board' prior to folding his hand, and the board becomes his hand, and is live."

The end.

Sparks
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  #2  
Old 03-14-2005, 02:45 AM
Dynasty Dynasty is offline
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Default Re: \"I Play the Board,\" I lose the pot, I miss a bet.

You need to learn the rules of cardrooms. You almost certainly should have been entitled to half the pot.

In any Vegas cardroom, the dealer should kill each player's hand before showing. When that happens, the two of you will split the pot.
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  #3  
Old 03-14-2005, 03:03 AM
MicroBob MicroBob is offline
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Default Re: \"I Play the Board,\" I lose the pot, I miss a bet.

Where do I get a copy of poker-room rules such as these?

I only play live once every 2 months or so currently so my understanding of the rules is pretty much from some of the situations I have read around here combined with general common-sense.
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  #4  
Old 03-14-2005, 03:06 AM
Sparks Sparks is offline
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Default Re: \"I Play the Board,\" I lose the pot, I miss a bet.

[ QUOTE ]
You need to learn the rules of cardrooms.

[/ QUOTE ]
Huh?

I was the only one in the whole building that knew the rule.

Sparks
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Old 03-14-2005, 03:35 AM
Dynasty Dynasty is offline
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Default Re: \"I Play the Board,\" I lose the pot, I miss a bet.

There is nothing in your post which indicates that you knew you were entitled to half the pot even though your opponent's pair of Kings were turned face up by the dealer.
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Old 03-14-2005, 03:52 AM
Ryno Ryno is offline
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Default Re: \"I Play the Board,\" I lose the pot, I miss a bet.

"Because he looked a little scary and was way tilted"

Is this a white guy with a Polo hat pushed way down so you can't see his forehead? Bets his chips in a very smooth fashion?
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  #7  
Old 03-14-2005, 05:19 AM
Sparks Sparks is offline
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Default Re: \"I Play the Board,\" I lose the pot, I miss a bet.

[ QUOTE ]
There is nothing in your post which indicates that you knew you were entitled to half the pot even though your opponent's pair of Kings were turned face up by the dealer.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm pretty sure I was entitled to the entire pot, not just half. I declared that I was playing the board, and he did not. But I made the decision that since his cards never hit the muck, I wouldn't pursue a decision. Ironically, if I HAD asked for a decision, it would have likely gone against me since the shift manager didn't know the rule about playing the board, nor did the dealer, nor did the part time floorman who was playing in the game.

I sumarized the above in my original post by saying "He won." Perhaps I could have fleshed that out a bit more. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Sparks

Note: The confusion here stems from what appears to be a conflict in Robert's Rules of Poker. Under General Poker Rules - The Showdown, paragraph 1 states that to win any part of the pot, both cards must be shown face up on the table. This is not correct, because when you declare you are playing the board, you don't have to show, which is described under the Hold 'em rules section, paragraph 6.
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  #8  
Old 03-14-2005, 05:23 AM
Sparks Sparks is offline
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Default Re: \"I Play the Board,\" I lose the pot, I miss a bet.

[ QUOTE ]
Is this a white guy with a Polo hat pushed way down so you can't see his forehead?

[/ QUOTE ]
No. I had never seen the guy before.

Sparks
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  #9  
Old 03-14-2005, 05:38 AM
Randy_Refeld Randy_Refeld is offline
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Default Re: \"I Play the Board,\" I lose the pot, I miss a bet.

[ QUOTE ]
This is not correct, because when you declare you are playing the board, you don't have to show, which is described under the Hold 'em rules section, paragraph 6.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not as conflicted as it seems. The rule in Robert's Rules of Poker is intended to protect someeone that isn't familiar with poker. When someone says "I'm playing the board" they know what their hand is; at this point the dealer should protect the muck. At this point if you are instructed to turn up your hand and then force it into tthe muck to avoid showing what you were playing your hand should be ruled dead. There is a difference between throwing your cards into the muck because you didn't know you were supposed to show them and throwing them into the muck to prevent the other players from seenig what you were playing (such as 2 ace of spades).
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  #10  
Old 03-14-2005, 08:38 AM
afish afish is offline
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Default Re: \"I Play the Board,\" I lose the pot, I miss a bet.

These posts are showing up more and more. I have two thoughts:

1) I always show. What are you hiding anyway? Don't you want your opponents to know you'd play 89s in that fashion? If you show, you don't have to worry about the floor knowing obscure rules.

2) Although the other guy mucked his hand, I can't get too agitated when the best hand wins. I'd take this opportunity to tell "see both hands" guy to keep his mouth shut unless he suspects collusion. This "see both hands" rule is particularly atrocious with the internet players who don't understand that the rule is intended to prevent collusion and should not be used just because you are curious.
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