Turn in Multiway hand with TT

[BWebb]

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...you would really like to get people with an overcard or something to fold, and hopefully people with weak gutshots fold (thus making a mistake).

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Edit to add: This is more of a general post, not just this hand specifically.

I see this a lot during arguments about raising the flop or waiting until the turn. The case for raising the flop when it won't decrease pot odds to the point where opponents call incorrectly is usually argued by saying something along the lines of "give them a chance to fold incorrectly." The problem with this is most small stakes hold'em players don't fold whether it is correct or not! They call whether the pot odds are with them or against them. So raising the flop hoping to get them to do something that they don't normally do is pointless, they are going to call and it just so happens it is still correct for them to do so in this spot. A raise on the flop makes them chose two options, one good for you and one bad for you, with the one bad for you something they do the vast majority of the time. However, waiting until the turn to see if a safe card comes will make them chose two options that are both good for you. I know the subject of waiting until the turn has been covered in numerous poker books, but I just wanted to reiterate it.

[QTip]

Rather humorous ending to the hand:

I went ahead and just called the turn...still not sure about it even though raising just 2 clean up 2 outs isn't worth it here if that's all we're doing.

After I called, some others called, and a guy in MP timed out.

The river was a T.

Everyone checked to me, and I bet and got a handful of callers.

Turns out MP who timed out had 77. I did win a side pot though that gave me + $8 for the hand.

[Ice]

Qtip

I like the pre-flop call,although a three bet isn't bad either. On the flop i thought you should wait until the turn
to raise but i would be wrong you have to much going for you with the overpair,gutshot and backdoor draw good raise.

Now to the turn, mp3 just called your flop raise now comes out betting the turn.It appears weak to me so i would raise and see if i can knock some people out to improve my chances in this huge pot.It's a risky raise with this board but you did pick up the open end straight draw so even if your behind to a set or two pair you have outs.Ice

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I definitely would have waited for the turn to raise.

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bingo. callers on the flop are getting 9-1 immediate odds to call. Your hand is vulnerable and raising doesn't protect it.

Given this fact, should hero have just RR pf?

If its a really passive player its an easy fold.

Anyone else I am raising and facing the rest of the field with 2 cold in this huge pot. You have the best hand here alot of the time.

[TheHip41]

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If its a really passive player its an easy fold.

Anyone else I am raising and facing the rest of the field with 2 cold in this huge pot. You have the best hand here alot of the time.

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No, he doesn't. At 2-4, that turn donk means "I can beat TT, and I dont want to give a free card"

To the OP--this is an awesome hand.

I have a whole bunch of questions.

In this hand, CC'ing pf (as opposed to 3betting) so we can R a favorable flop, seems useless because the pot will be too big to protect our hand regardless. When would it be correct to CC with this intention?

My first instinct on the flop was to call with the intention of raising a safe turn. Does MP3 really bet the turn with hands that we beat? If not, then we should raise the flop for value, right?

If we raise the turn, and get three bet by MP3, we fold the river UI?
If we raise the turn, MP3 and others just call, what do we do on a non spade J-8,6,4-2 if it’s checked to us?
If we just call the turn, river is as above and it’s checked to MP3 who bets, what do we do? We fold an A or K, right?

I don't think you win this hand without a non spade 7 or Q for six outs. A raise here should not clean up any outs. I'd call this turn with the hopes of inducing more calls behind. If so, I expect to make more money if I catch my striaght. A 7 would be particularly juicy as the chacnes of a five being out there are good.