Bad sticky thread on folding KK preflop.

[pzhon]

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Frankly, KK doesn't show up enough for us to spend so much time talking about it.

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That may be true, but

[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Being unable to fold KK preflop can cost 1 big blind every 100 hands when you play full ring games. It depends on the stack sizes.

[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] The same logic applies to many other situations.

[PoBoy321]

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Being unable to fold KK preflop can cost 1 big blind every 100 hands when you play full ring games. It depends on the stack sizes.

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Precisely, and with the typical short stacks of most small stakes games, you would be costing yourself far more money by incorrectly folding KK when you're ahead than you would by incorrectly calling when you're behind.

[GrunchCan]

pzhon -

A rash of bad beat posts might not dissuade you from contributing to this forum, but it does contribute to the resons why some good posters eventually leave a forum. If a forum has a lot of noise then that forum won't gather new contributors, and could eventually chase away the regulars.

I've seen this actually happen here at 2+2. Before moderators were introduced to the micro forum, it was largely community moderated. Some of the most visible posters (including myself) took steps to moderate the forum in the only ways that we could - by posting PSA type posts & being critical of noise. But in the ebb and flow of the enthusiasm of the leading posters, there came a point eventually where there was less effort to moderate the forum, and the noise ratio climbed up. The enthusiasm of the leading posters declined some more in a cyclic pattern, and eventually people started to leave. It took a great deal of effort to bring it back around.

In my interpretation, one of our jobs as the moderators (not our only job) of this forum is to keep the signal:noise ratio high becasue of the caustic effect that noise has on the forum's quality. Bad beat posts contribute a lot of noise to the forum.

Our sticky thread regarding KK is not intended to be the end-all, be-all preflop strategy post for KK. We acknowledge that there are times when it's right to fold KK preflop. But we also know that it takes special circumstances which don't often occur at this level. We know that we should all be cognizant and consider these special circumstances, and for that reason our sticky is only temporary. It is only intended to stem the flop of bad beat posts. Once the post has served it's purpose, it will come down.

I hope this makes some sense of why we created the sticky, and I hope we can cooperate to keep the quality of this forum high.

[GrunchCan]

We are taking this situation very seriously. And after further consideration & discussions with other mods, we've come to the conclusion that ultimately pzhon, you were correct:

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I think sticky threads should be held to a higher standard, particularly on 2+2.

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I agree. Strategy posts should not be stickied because none can be correct in all cases. However, the situation with KK is correct often enough that except under extreme circumstances does it need to be addressed. Rare as these circumstances may be, if we hope to improve as players we should be able to discuss and consider them.

However, this is not a green light for people to post thier bad beat with KK as a special exception. I still stand by what I said in this thread about our job as moderators. We need to encourage a good signal:noise ratio, and bad beat posts erode signal.

So, the sticky is gone. It won't be replaced. In the future, bad beat posts will be dealt with swiftly by being moved or locked. If bad beat posts continue despite this, we may post a public service announcement regarding that sort of posting. But it won't be a strategy post.

Hopefully, this will work out better for SSNL.

[Isura]

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Q: Okay, so I raise 4xBB preflop with Kings and the player to my immediate left raises. Then another player goes all in. Do I fold?

A: Depends on the opponents. Folding Kings preflop in fear of Aces isn't a liked topic in the forum. Here are some threads that deal with the subject of Kings Vs. potential Aces.

Click here, here, and here.

Sometimes laying Kings down preflop is correct. Most of the time it is not. There is roughly a 3.4% chance, at a full table, that your Kings are up against Aces. Make a decision and go with your instinct.

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Does this entry not cover it pretty well in a short amount of time?

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Skeme is the nuts. Your FAQ is seriously under-utilized by noobs on this forum.

[pzhon]

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In my interpretation, one of our jobs as the moderators (not our only job) of this forum is to keep the signal:noise ratio high becasue of the caustic effect that noise has on the forum's quality.

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I agree with the goal of increasing the signal:noise thread.

Making a sticky thread about folding KK preflop that directs people to the FAQ's answer or past threads should increase the signal:noise ratio.

Including a fallacious argument will lower the signal:noise ratio. I do not understand why theblitz's ridiculous statistic was included after my repeated objections, but I simply won't contribute to this forum while a gross error in logic is at the top, along with a message saying that discussions will be locked.

[-Skeme-]

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Your FAQ is seriously under-utilized by noobs on this forum.

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No kidding. There are way too many threads about things I cover in the FAQ. I feel so unappreciated. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]