NL Adventure - 2 hands

[bobbyi]

Making it $50 with the aces was very reasonable. You'd much rather play this pot in position heads up against the raiser and force him to make a big mistake by putting half his stack in preflop when you have aces (pretty much committing you to the pot) rather than calling and building a big pot against a large field out of position where one of them will outflop you and stack you and the rest will fold on the flop.

[QTip]

[ QUOTE ]
You need to raise this river.


[/ QUOTE ]

I considered it, but it no know way to I want to put myself in a position to fold? Is that weak thinking?

[chief444]

Grunch...I'm curious why it is you're folding this flop. I don't see KJs on a 962 flop as just a flush draw when someone overbets like that. I think his K and J outs are good most of the time. Not to mention he's getting about 2.5:1 immediate odds just to see the turn. I agree the implied odds aren't so hot but I don't think he should fold the flop. But then I don't play that much NL either. Could someone explain to me a bit further though why you guys are mucking here when you're likely at 40-50% equity? Sure he may not see the river but I think I'd rather just go all-in than fold here. And like I said it seems to me like he's getting about the immediate odds he needs anyway. It's closer to a 15 outer than 9 outer he's holding.

[Isura]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You need to raise this river.


[/ QUOTE ]

I considered it, but it no know way to I want to put myself in a position to fold? Is that weak thinking?

[/ QUOTE ]

You are not folding this hand. Live players in a 1/2 game will not play a set this way. He most likely has 9x, an overpair, or was also drawing to the flush (his turn underbet could indicate this). He always pays off with 9x and a lower flush, and there's only one higher flush. You should raise as much as you think he'll call, and call a push. BTW, these 1/2 NL games are comparable to the 2/4 and 3/6 live limit games.

[GrunchCan]

Chief -

What I said to QTip goes for you, too. I got a lot from your posts in the limit forums when I was there, and I hope you stick around here for a while.

I've been thinking about your questions, and I wish I had a better answer for you. But I'm folding the flop here becasue I'm unwilling to back this hand up with my whole stack. Now if we truly do have 40% equity and wer'e putting in less than that then we have a theoretical equity edge, and we should be putting chips in. But my bad position, the non-nut nature of my draw, and the fact that some of my outs are just to 1-pair make me not like the hand much at all.

But I'd like to hear other views.

[chief444]

Hey Grunch,

Thanks for the response. I used to play a good deal of live NL but honestly I don't really enjoy it online as much. And where I live now the casino's take such a ridiculous rake that I play solely online limit. So I just stop by occasionally. Anyway...Qtip asked me to look at this one so I did. To be fair though my response is a bit biased b/c I asked Qtip what the flop bettor was like and from the description (30ish...bigger fella...a bit boisterous) I guessed he was on the laggy side. Would that lean you towards a non-fold? [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] Anyway...just wanted to make sure you felt it at the very least was close. Thanks again.

Chief

[sweetjazz]

What I found interesting about this hand is how non-sensical it was played. First, there is the gross overbet of the pot on the flop by the EP player. Second, he makes the exact same size bet on later streets despite the pot being much bigger in both cases. Third, BB calls the overbet on the flop, but then folds to the underbet on the turn.

If you had happened to sit at that table for a few hours, you probably could have started to get a sense for exactly what those irrational decisions meant, and since so many of them were so bad, you have an incredible opportunity to exploit them.

BTW, I thought the turn bet was really stupid too, but I wonder whether BB would have played the hand the same without you in it. If players in that game will often peel one card on the flop but fold the turn without better than two pair or a big draw, regardless of bet sizes, villain's play looks better. I doubt that is what villain is thinking, but I just found in interesting that the villain took an awful line but BB played it about as awfully as he could given that line.

[wdeadwyler]

Hand 1: Perfect raise

Hand 2: Push river, also, if you think EP is weak (read his soul), you can semibluff raise the turn, but just calling is better amost of the time.