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#11
12-07-2005, 11:15 PM
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Re: A Hand
[ QUOTE ]
I call planning on raising the turn. The turn is the J of spades. [/ QUOTE ] Like I said, I tend to think folding to the flop c/r is the correct play. But this is the one I often make. Just don't think it's very good. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] 
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#12
12-07-2005, 11:21 PM
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Re: A Hand
Well there is no way I'm folding just yet. He doesn't have a flush or any other good hand since those hands would (or should) have bet the flop by a good player. Of course he might suck and that is always a problem. A good player will bet-call-bet a big flush and probably bet-3bet a weaker flush. A good player will sometimes have Kx here (which you might be able to beat) and sometimes will have less. I don't see him having more then a pair of kings in this spot. I would plan on calling down should the board not bring a 4th [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
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#14
12-07-2005, 11:34 PM
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Re: A Hand
[ QUOTE ]
free showdown, free showdown, free showdown, free showdown....on a non A or [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] turn. [/ QUOTE ] This is why I'm posting the hand. To me, I think the free showdown play is overly used and used poorly by many of us, with me probably among the worst. The thing I've been thinking about is how the turn card affects our holding. I was talking this over with Entity about an hour ago, and we were talking about the play vs. others that know it or lags, and how it loses it's luster in those scenarios. However, the other thing here is that now that I have a gutshot, it's much more difficult to fold to a 3 bet against an opponent that could have a set or 2 pair here.
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#15
12-07-2005, 11:45 PM
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Re: A Hand
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] free showdown, free showdown, free showdown, free showdown....on a non A or [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] turn. [/ QUOTE ] This is why I'm posting the hand. To me, I think the free showdown play is overly used and used poorly by many of us, with me probably among the worst. The thing I've been thinking about is how the turn card affects our holding. I was talking this over with Entity about an hour ago, and we were talking about the play vs. others that know it or lags, and how it loses it's luster in those scenarios. However, the other thing here is that now that I have a gutshot, it's much more difficult to fold to a 3 bet against an opponent that could have a set or 2 pair here. [/ QUOTE ] In my opinion (if we get to the turn), the fact that we have just picked up a gutshot means that we really should not take a free showdown here. The main reason for a free showdown would be extracting value from a draw. Better hands aren't folding and it's heads-up so there are no tactical reasons for a raise. I think missed [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] draws are bluffing this river a lot of the time anyway, though, so I see little reason to raise here at any point. See... Brett... I'm not just a mindless advocate of the free-showdown raise.
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#16
12-07-2005, 11:47 PM
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Re: A Hand
The FSD play is best used when you will oftentimes have a big hand in that same spot. The only 2 hands that I can see calling the flop/raising turn with are things like Kx and the nut flush draw. You have to be able to have some hands that will make the villian pay for 3-betting us lite. If he knows that we are weak when we make this play, it becomes very easy for us to get run over. If I were the villian, I would 3-bet something like 55 and a [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] everytime you raise. You fold your top pair hand that I want you to and I get value if you are just raising with a draw.
So what other hands will you raise the turn with here? If you can't think of anything willing to cap it up, I see no point in raising the turn. In essense, this is a very poor raise since it just sets him up to outplay you. Obviously this assumes that he knows you and you know him, but that seems to be the case here.
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