QJo EMP in a Tightish Game

[@bsolute_luck]

preflop is creatively fine. i wouldn't make it a standard play, but mixing it in isn't bad.

i think i'd call the turn instead of raising. you have a gutshot and your Jax and Queens maybe good, so call to see the river. he seems a bit aggressive, so you could call this river, but i think i'd like to fold since i doubt he's betting this river with UI or some hand with a T in it. but that would be up to you and how comfortable you are with your read.

[jaxUp]

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. I don't think you can call a Q an out since it will make AK very happy indeed.


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AK is just a part of villain's range here, and I don't think you can completely ignore all Q's especially once he 3-bets the turn. When he 3-bets the turn, I start to think overpair. I'd be surprised to see AK more than 1/4 of the time and thing you can count about 2-2.5 outs for the Q's, 1.75-2 outs for the J's. and 4 outs for the 9s.even taking the low end of those out estimations we have almost 8 outs.

And just to clarify, this:

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If you raise you're doing it to knock him out or for value when he's behind. But if he reraises you that's a clear message that you're toast and you can safely fold.

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was referring to when you have significantly fewer outs (like half as many) right? Because folding to the turn 3-bet here would just be awful.

[bozlax]

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But if he reraises you that's a clear message that you're toast and you can safely fold.

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I agree with everything you said, except the above. This is the problem with raising the turn...his 3-bet means nothing, given that he's a 40% VPIP with a 3 PAF. So you CAN'T safely fold to the 3-bet, a raise WON'T knock him off his hand, ever, and you have no idea if you can raise for value. Ergo, call/call and see the cheapest showdown you can.

[moa]

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Is raising and then folding to a 3-bet a big no-no preflop?

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yes. preflop in limit holdem you shouldn't raise and fold for one more bet unless you're johny chan playing some high stakes poker with mike mcclain. . folding for 2 more bets can be perfectly acceptable.

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fyp

[Xhad]

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Can someone explain why calling the flop is better than raising? Is it because there's only one player in the hand, or the pot is too small, or just that our hand doesn't have enough value?

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Because Villain is folding basically never, we may have only backdoor outs and getting 3bet sucks.

About raise/fold preflop: You're always getting at least 5-to-1, usually 6-to-1, on calling a reraise so you kind of have to call no matter how tight your opponent is, especially in position. I would fold even after raising in this situation if the BB capped regardless of his stats.

[Shillx]

Your options are to just calldown or raise the turn and then not put more then 1 BB into the pot from that point on.

Calling down makes the hand a lot easier to play so that is what I'd do. If you raise the turn and get called, what do you do on the river? How much value is there in a river bet here. I just don't know. If you do raise the turn though, you can't call both a 3-bet and a river bet. You obviously have to call the reraise, but you have to fold the river UI. I would just calldown and expect him to show me AK or AQ or whatever enough of the time to make it worthwile.

[adsman]

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But if he reraises you that's a clear message that you're toast and you can safely fold.

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I agree with everything you said, except the above. This is the problem with raising the turn...his 3-bet means nothing, given that he's a 40% VPIP with a 3 PAF. So you CAN'T safely fold to the 3-bet, a raise WON'T knock him off his hand, ever, and you have no idea if you can raise for value. Ergo, call/call and see the cheapest showdown you can.

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Yeah, sorry I wasn't clear in my post. What I was saying was with that argument you can't be sure if he 3-bets that you're toast against this kind of player. Which makes raising the turn even worse. He re-pops you, are you toast? You don't know. This guy is too murky. So don't raise the turn. It all goes to the oft-quoted line;

"Don't bet or raise if a reraise will make you throw up in your mouth."

Call it down.

[beset7]

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Your options are to just calldown or raise the turn and then not put more then 1 BB into the pot from that point on.


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I just want to clarify, this means if I raise the turn I should fold to a river bet?